The Eagles have become the Partridge Family

[Amberwolf]

58 minutes ago, mettelus said:

This is probably coming swifter than most expect. With advances in holography and AI generated "artists"/CGI, it won't be long before those become more prevalent. As with the Milli Vanilli example, the day will come when there may be no artists involved at all for an act, and everything in a performance and behind the scenes can be created with AI (just the business machine running the show). Those artists will never age and their voices will never change, and they can even "perform" at multiple venues at once (almost like a movie release). People will get tired of seeing the same artist ad infinitum, but behind the scenes it will be a simple change to make somebody new.

It is partly here already, with the Vocaloid performances, concerts where a CGI vocaloid or group of them are the focus of the concert.   

There are others that use them as an additonal performance, with real performers doing the majority of what's happening, such as Kodo's with "Hatsune Miku".   (I like Kodo...vocaloids, not so much). 

 

 

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

Even many of the principals who did the TV show mentioned in the post title here could play and sing live but of course didn't because it wasn't that kind of a TV show

Curious: I thought that the only actors on The Partridge Family who could sing were David Cassidy and Shirley Jones. Excellent singers both.

IIRC, Cassidy could also play guitar IRL, but I didn't think any of the rest could actually play an instrument. Of course not even David played on their songs.

[msmcleod]

Having fall back backing tracks should you lose your voice half way through a show, or even a tour seems a sensible thing to do.  No need to cancel the gigs, and 99% of the audience wouldn't notice in any case.   I suspect they'd prefer this to having the show cancelled.

Far better than what they used to do in the 50's, which was to stick some guy who "looked the part" up front miming, while a completely different singer was hiding behind a curtain.

[Notes_Norton]

17 hours ago, JnTuneTech said:

In my experiences over the years, I went from disdain over miming & such in things like The Partridge Family (etc.), and in fact on many televised performances from the 60s and onward,

I quit watching TV altogether.  Working nights as a musician, I never watched a lot of it. Then in the 1980s I gigged for 3 years on cruise ships, when there was no TV. I got home, connected the cable, but I was out of the habit of watching it. Instead, I taught myself lead guitar, learned how to write aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box, made a lot of backing tracks from scratch, and had fun doing things with my wife instead of watching TV together. So why pay for it? I cut the cable, and took down the antenna.

Mrs. Notes and I play to backing tracks. But at least they are all my playing (for better or worse). I'd rather play in a larger band.

In fact, the then future Mrs. Notes and I were in a 5 piece band. DJs started taking gigs from musicians, clubs didn't want to pay bands, we lost a bass player that put us out of work for a while, then a drummer.

So I bought a Teac A3440 4 track tape recorder, made backing tracks, mixed to cassette, and went to work as a duo. The gigs weren't as glamorous as they were in the 5 piece, but the money per person was better. Plus, we both have intense work ethics, so there were no more personnel problems. Now it's all digital, but still all me.

So like the Eagles or those with a Dome residency, we did what we had to do to survive, adapting to the current climate. 

Survival goes to those that can adapt to the times.

The only concerts I go to now are Symphonies, but I go to jazz clubs and to support my friends at their gigs.

Edited October 12 by Notes_Norton
typo - I'm TYPOMAN - writing all wrongs

[Terry Kelley]

Well, the Partridge family did become the Cowsills, so …

[JnTuneTech]

15 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Curious: I thought that the only actors on The Partridge Family who could sing were David Cassidy and Shirley Jones. Excellent singers both.

IIRC, Cassidy could also play guitar IRL, but I didn't think any of the rest could actually play an instrument. Of course not even David played on their songs.

In general, it used to be that many stage & screen actors could capably sing and dance, at minimum, for stage and auditions, before they ever got to television and the like. And conversely, many talented musicians had to mime for television or movies even though they could play circles around me live. In most cases, that's just how the business worked, and as Mr. Notes mentioned earlier here, you could either adapt or lose out.

I say this also because it seems now, from everything I have seen in the past few years, in "popular" music more & more of the "artists" have likely been picked up by modern media based on whether they got a viral "following" on socials, not track record, and many of them seem to almost be complete amateurs. -And hey, sometimes that works, if they adapt and learn and grow, that's all good too. But in the past, I feel we had more genuinely trained and weathered performers, but maybe I am just older & grumpy. 😣.

[Starship Krupa]

2 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

Well, the Partridge family did become the Cowsills, so …

Other way 'round, actually, but maybe you get that and I'm reading what you wrote wrong.

The network liked the basic idea of the Cowsills, a rock band made up of siblings plus mom on backing vox. The idea was floated to have the Cowsills play fictionalized versions of themselves Ozzie and Harriet style, but they were deemed unsuitable. The Cowsills did have their own TV special, but the network decided to just "borrow" the concept behind the band and cast it with all professional actors.

Mom Barbara became Shirley Partridge and youngest kid (backing vocalist and percussionist) Susan became Tracy. Youngest boy (drummer) John Cowsill mapped into Chris Partridge. John later became the drummer for the Beach Boys touring band.

[JnTuneTech]

22 hours ago, Amberwolf said:

It is partly here already, with the Vocaloid performances, concerts where a CGI vocaloid or group of them are the focus of the concert. 

Yes, and that is one of the cultural things that Japan is very strong on, and have actually been keen on for quite some time, along with lifelike robot "friends" and the like, while all western markets got were Tamagotchi, or maybe reading news about robots like Aibo  (pal or partner...), along with the ever "improving" "lifelike" robot "girlfriends".  But fairly recently, an upsurge in crossover popularity & exposure for anime and manga brought along higher popularity for the related things like vocaloids, which of course do well on digital streaming by nature. Between that and live holographic technology, it's definitely all coming closer, and AI is rapidly accelerating that. For now though, it does still mostly get created and directed starting with actual people behind it.

The question with AI in the mix, -literally and functionally, will be whether the public in general simply accepts entirely non-human creations, or even takes them to heart like some of the fans of Hatsune Miku can seem to do. I really wonder how it will go.

I am actually looking forward to using some AI tools, to enhance my own creativity, and extend my musical capabilities, just as I do using a DAW rather than a physical mixer and dedicated recording hardware. I am even interested in things like the recent ad I saw for the IK Media Resing product, in fact, as long as I can creatively use it like I would any instrument. -What I can't imagine is just giving AI some notes and having it create a song, and then selling that. Or having it figure out and recreate all the Eagles material, as well as play it for me. What would be the point? Backing tracks can have a place, voice alteration (actually been done for years) can work, when it's done creatively, any instrument/tool should be an extension of our imagination. Helping learn is great too. But there has to be a balance, I feel anyway.

I was playing at a small venue in the early 80s where David Cassidy was present. We didn't meet, but I probably would have found he was at least an actual person I could relate to somewhat, as I understood the Partridge Family was all just entertainment, not reality. On the other hand, what could I do if I was to "meet" some AI program that created an interesting composition someday - I just can't imagine. What will that even mean?

But of course, Danny Bonaduce playing bass - now come on, that's really stretching it. 😁

[Terry Kelley]

23 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Other way 'round, actually, but maybe you get that and I'm reading what you wrote wrong.

The network liked the basic idea of the Cowsills, a rock band made up of siblings plus mom on backing vox. The idea was floated to have the Cowsills play fictionalized versions of themselves Ozzie and Harriet style, but they were deemed unsuitable. The Cowsills did have their own TV special, but the network decided to just "borrow" the concept behind the band and cast it with all professional actors.

Mom Barbara became Shirley Partridge and youngest kid (backing vocalist and percussionist) Susan became Tracy. Youngest boy (drummer) John Cowsill mapped into Chris Partridge. John later became the drummer for the Beach Boys touring band.

Not in the context of this thread. It’s all back to origins.

[TheSteven]

Other incidents:
In the 1970's with Alice Cooper's original band - guitarist Glen Buxton became an alcoholic and they'd stand him on stage with an unplugged guitar while Dick Wagner or Mick Mashbir filled in back stage.

In 1978 ELO was accused of using a 16 track tape machine back stage so that they could mime their performance
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/elo-first-band-embroiled-in-a-lip-syncing-scandal/

[mettelus]

The positive flip side to this is singers accused of lip syncing and then packing it up the accuser's pooper. I tend to find those moments far more memorable than people caught cheating... a bit more rare, but definitely more satisfying.

 

 

[T Boog]

"The Eagles: Fake it to the Limit"

(That top comment cracked me up 🤣)

 

[Jeremy Oakes]

10 hours ago, T Boog said:

"The Eagles: Fake it to the Limit"

(That top comment cracked me up 🤣)

 

Poor Fil, he takes himself sooooo seriously. This is a video of Joe Walsh from a 2014 TV show - who knows what the TV company did on the post prod side. Who really cares ? Do we all listen to the isolated tracks only or the song as a whole ? 

No, i don’t care for our Fil.
J

[Old Joad]

23 hours ago, T Boog said:

"The Eagles: Fake it to the Limit"

(That top comment cracked me up 🤣)

 

Joe, say it ain't so!!!!🫨

[Old Joad]

On 10/12/2025 at 12:03 PM, Starship Krupa said:

Other way 'round, actually, but maybe you get that and I'm reading what you wrote wrong.

The network liked the basic idea of the Cowsills, a rock band made up of siblings plus mom on backing vox. The idea was floated to have the Cowsills play fictionalized versions of themselves Ozzie and Harriet style, but they were deemed unsuitable. The Cowsills did have their own TV special, but the network decided to just "borrow" the concept behind the band and cast it with all professional actors.

Mom Barbara became Shirley Partridge and youngest kid (backing vocalist and percussionist) Susan became Tracy. Youngest boy (drummer) John Cowsill mapped into Chris Partridge. John later became the drummer for the Beach Boys touring band.

My favorite Cowsills song☮️

 

[T Boog]

12 hours ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

No, i don’t care for our Fil.

I'm starting to think ur just jealous of Fil's muscular body & milky white skin.  You prob wish u could prance shirtless in the rain like he does 😁

(Just yankin ur chain Jeremy. It's all love 🤗)

[Bass Guitar]

Funny this topic has come up because I randomly have watched a few of his videos and my very first thought was?? He’s using stem separation? Stem Separation is not the multi track? How can he accurately analyze the material?  This is total BS. 
Oh well I guess like many people who make a living off You Tube he’s found a following. 

Then he picked on the Greystones saying that they were lip sinking live and using auto correct! Their audio guy immediately called him out and explained that they were actually singing live , didn’t use auto tune but they did do some overdubs of parts that sucked and at no point denied that they did that. It’s pretty common practice to edit live performance videos this way. The kids even started posting videos of themselves demonstrating how they actually did know how to play and sing . 
Phil had egg on his face and quickly removed the video. He apologized. 

I had to laugh because I myself have often recorded live performances and then completely redone the audio because it was kinda crappy. Why not?  

His last video I watched was accusing John Fogarty of using AI  on anew album. He used live recordings to demonstrate the difference in sound??? WTF?  
 

How on earth do you compare a studio recording to a Cell phone rip run through crappie stem separation software?? 
 

And why do we even care! 
 

Even Jimmy Buffets huge concerts in his final years you can tell are a mix of live and tracks. Take note that Rodger the drummer is wearing headphones. I think it’s pretty much necessary to do this when you have the multi media screen running. You see all sorts of stuff like teleprompters and now everyone has in ears. It’s show business people. And the fans are having a blast! 
The music is great and consistent concert to concert. Jimmy is still singing and you can hear the bad notes. He is the first person to admit that he is not a great singer! But he was one of the best entertainers in the industry. 

My guess is that the Eagles might suck a little on those high notes these days. I know I do!  But compared to Jimmy they are totally boring to watch. 

Edited Friday at 03:39 AM by Bass Guitar

[Starship Krupa]

On 10/16/2025 at 9:36 PM, TheSteven said:

In 1978 ELO was accused of using a 16 track tape machine back stage so that they could mime their performance
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/elo-first-band-embroiled-in-a-lip-syncing-scandal/

I was a big fan of ELO at the time and an avid reader of the music press and I don't remember any such incident. Not saying none of it's true, but someone did a good job of keeping it out of the press. The Who were well known around that time for using tapes to augment their performances when playing material that had used parts that they couldn't perform live, mostly on the Quadrophenia tour, but also for stuff like Townshend's keyboard ostinatos. "Baba O'Riley" and (a few years later) "Eminence Front."

I'd be surprised if ELO didn't  have taped parts to reproduce the arrangements of some of their songs. Like you're going to play "Eldorado" and not have that famous spoken word "high on a hill, in Eldorado-dorado-dorado...." intro? The string section itself, I still haven't figured out how it was possible to get Gale and Kaminski and McDowell amplified and also able to hear themselves at arena rock stage volume. I know there was a company called Barcus-Berry involved in making pickups for them, but the rest is a mystery.

Regarding that article, the idea of a 70's Detroit rock promoter being a crusader for authenticity (or for anything other than making money from what they were doing) stretches credibility way past the breaking point. As long as the kids paid their money and were entertained, I find it nearly impossible to believe a promoter would care about anything else. Why pull such a stunt and run the risk of concert attendees asking for their money back? Who would it serve?

Rather more likely was that someone on the local crew noticed that they were testing the backing tracks during sound check and talked about it. Maybe they thought it was big news and contacted someone in the press, or someone in ELO's entourage pissed them off. They were managed by Donn Arden, the Great Satan of 70's British rock 'n' roll, making that more likely. I remember Peter Grant, Zeppelin's manager, having a go at one of Bill Graham's employees around that time at a concert at Oakland Coliseum. Talk about When *****holes Collide. This kind of thing was well-covered, the press always loves a controversy.

So I'm gonna roll and cast Filter of Skepticism.

Edited Friday at 05:06 PM by Starship Krupa