Weird dropout and other behaviors just started happening

[theanalog808]

For reference, I have been using Bandcamp Cakewalk on this computer for 4 years, and Cakewalk Sonar for about a year.  I upgraded my interface to an RME Fireface UCX II about 6 months ago, and it has generally been working flawlessly.  I have several music projects that I have been working on in the past year that I have not had any real issues with either.  Then tonight, while trying to clean up a project for final mixdown that I have been working on for the past year, in the middle of the session, the audio became very distorted, then the engine dropped out, status (1).   I played the project again, and it more distortion and a drop out.  By the fourth or fifth play, the audio engine  just dropped immediate.   Here are the steps I took:

- I open the other projects that I have been regularly and recently working on, and the same behavior.  

- If I try to play the project in Bandcamp Cakewalk, it exhibits the same issue

- My windows audio works fine.

- If I open a very simple project (minimal tracks), it plays without any distortion or issue

- I am using Cakewalk Sonar 2025.08 (Build 035, X64)

- I have the ASIO drivers selected

- I switched my latency from 256 to 512 all the way up to 2048

- If I switch to WASAPI driver, I hear a quick blip of distortion, then silence.  The track visually is still playing, but there is no CPU usage in the meter.  

- Sometimes when I switch back to ASIO or to MME, as soon as I close the settings dialog, my CPU performance spikes an I hear distortion, or the first second of the project that is distorted and continues to play indefinitely (Automatically, without the play button being pressed).  

- I updated my RME driver and firmware. 

- Rebooted my RME Fireface multiple times

- Rebooted my PC multiple times

- I updated my BIOS on the motherboard.

- I tried another USB cable, and multiple USB ports

-  There is no out-of-the-ordinary CPU/memory/Disk/Power usage

- When the issue first started, there were 2 pending Windows updates, but I went ahead and downloaded and installed them (the issue started before they were installed), but I plan to roll them back anyway.  

This sounds like a Cakewalk issue, especially considering weird behavior of audio/distortion playing when the play button was not pressed.  It is frustrating because I have been working on an album for a year, and I just need to fix parts in 2 of the last songs, and this occurs... 

 

Thank you in Advance

- 

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Could be a plugin crapping out.

Try bypassing all your Fx using the Fx button in the Control Bar and then playing the project again.

You could then try opening in Safe Mode and enabling Fx one at a time

Edited Saturday at 06:46 AM by Bristol_Jonesey

[Wookiee]

@theanalog808 please note it is not Bandcamp but Bandlab Cakewalk. Bandcamp is a purely music promotional and distribution site.

[Promidi]

Microsoft just released the September updates for Windows last Tuesday (9th September US time). 

Strictly as a test, try uninstalling these to see if this is the culprit.

[theanalog808]

Update on this weird behavior.  So the issued occurred before the Window updates, but I updated to see if that would fix any issues, and when it got worse, I rolled back the updates, but it did not make a difference.

Today, I powered up my computer and opened the project and it worked like a charm, as it nothing ever happened.  Then a few hours into my project, the issue came back again.  Like the first time, it started slowly, and got progressively worse.  The issue persisted through reboots.

Based on this, I am wondering if the issue has to do with the PC hardware or Windows OS, where is some kind of underlying issue or activity that is impacting the PC performance.  My next steps may be to run benchmarking software to see if it can identify any performance issues.  

  

 

[Noel Borthwick]

Have you looked into background processes? Your symptoms sound like some background progress either consuming excess CPU or interfering with your audio driver. If it's only in this project it could also be a plug-in. Sonar cannot excess  cpu when it's not playing.

[theanalog808]

@Noel Borthwick yes, I looked at it using both the Windows Task Manager and Process Hacker (System Informer) and nothing stood out.  I just shut down the computer and let it sit for an hour and powered on and the project plays fine.  I'll see how long it takes for the issue to reappear.  I think next steps is to monitor temperature and check my fans, maybe the CPU or other components are overheating.  So for now, I believe this is not a Cakewalk issue.  Appreciate the help.  FYI, I have been using Cakewalk as my sole DAW since 1987 or 1988 (Cakewalk v2), and continuously until today.   

[Promidi]

Have you tried having a look with Latencymon?

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon 

[David Baay]

Try disabling the 64-bit Double Precision Mix Engine and/or Always Stream Audio Through FX.

It might also be worth toggling the state of Use MMCSS and/or Enable MMCSS for ASIO Driver. I just recently tried enabling MMCS for ASIO and got some minor glitching when looping. I believe it's off by default and its potential benefit is very driver-specific.

More generally, whenever this kind of bad streaming behavior crops up, it's always worth executing Reset Config to Defaults unde Preferences > Audio > Configuration File as a troubleshooting step. Sonar will back up your AUD.INI and replace it with a default configuration.

Edited 23 hours ago by David Baay

[Bass Guitar]

Trouble shooting 101. 
Swap out components 

Try a different interface 

Try a different Computer 

Try a different Daw 

Try different cables and Ports

Try a different project 

Windows updates will sometimes undo settings you had made to optimize your system for audio. And rolling back doesn’t always fix that. 
First place is the list of Start up Apps. 
Try disabling the internet. 
Test your memory, bad memory sticks are known to cause problems like yours. Could even be dirty connections 

Edited 23 hours ago by Bass Guitar

[theanalog808]

Appreciate the help, but yes I have already gone through all the basic and advanced troubleshooting methods before I posted here.  

I have determined the issue is an overheated CPU, which the symptoms only start during 1 particular project that is heavier with tracks, VSTs and buses than I usually do.  I believe Cakewalk is trying hard to do all the processing in order to keep playing the track in real time, but I am not used to it overheating the CPU.  Typically I hear a more gradual introduction of artifacts and performance issues rather than it just hit all at once.  I imagine this may be due to new changes in the way Cakewalk maximizes resources, just a guess, but I have been using Cakewalk since 1987 or 1988 regularly, so I kind of have the breadth of experience using the product.   Of course once the CPU overheats, any projects will now exhibit the same behavior, so the next test is to start with a different project and see if the issue repeats.  If so, then hardware issues may be the culprit (I have already reapplied thermal paste between the CPU and the watercooled component.  But the issue is not a Cakewalk bug, but perhaps new changes in Cakewalk coding is why the issue manifested itself in this way.  

 

[Promidi]

16 minutes ago, theanalog808 said:

I have determined the issue is an overheated CPU

What is the specific temperature of your CPU while your project is glitching?

[theanalog808]

@Promidi The OS based monitoring software I am using is not reporting CPU temp for some reason, so when I go into the BIOS it is 90c <gasp>.  I went ahead and froze most of the tracks and not having any issues now.  The OS is Windows 10 (about to upgrade to 11), and it is interesting how there seems to be a lack of rails in place to prevent this from happening.  

[AB99]

What is your cpu and motherboard?  Some motherboard manufacturers have forums and often deal with cpu heat issues. Sometimes it is a bios setting fix, failing cpu, need for water cooling, cpu paste gone bad, cooling assembly not tightly on the cpu, etc. 

Best of luck on solving this.

[theanalog808]

@AB99 Gigabyte Z490 UD AC with an i7-10700K.  I'll research if this is a known issue, but I never had an issue in the 4 years past.  The fix is for me is to modify my workflow and start freezing resource intensive tracks early on, rather than wait until there are performance issues.  Cheers. 

[Promidi]

9 minutes ago, theanalog808 said:

so when I go into the BIOS it is 90c <gasp>

Yes, that is actually quite high.

Even if it was 90°C while the Sonar project is running, I would expect it to have cooled down a bit by the time you’ve rebooted your PC, entered the BIOS and then got to the part where you can see the CPU temperature.

I have had mine up to 95°C (measured in from inside Windows OS) while doing a Music rebalance with RX11.  As soon as this completes, the CPU temperature rapidly drops to around 35°C (which is my average normal idle temp)

Speaking of idle temp, what is yours?

[theanalog808]

@Promidi yes, that is a good point that it is taking a while to cool down.  I'll figure out why my monitoring software is not reporting CPU temp and get the idle temp.  I think what you are getting at is that I should be monitoring it outside of Cakewalk use to determine whether there is some kind of cooling issue going on.  

[AB99]

11 minutes ago, theanalog808 said:

@AB99 Gigabyte Z490 UD AC with an i7-10700K.  I'll research if this is a known issue, but I never had an issue in the 4 years past.  The fix is for me is to modify my workflow and start freezing resource intensive tracks early on, rather than wait until there are performance issues.  Cheers. 

Gigabytes are great and has a forum where you can get more info: https://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php

As to the CPU, I asked AI, and got this:
"To resolve Intel i7-10700K overheating, check that your CPU cooler is properly installed with fresh thermal paste, dust isn't blocking airflow, the AIO pump is working, and the system has good ventilation. Also, ensure your BIOS is up-to-date and settings like the power plan and fan speed control are optimized for cooling."

As I said, sometimes thermal paste goes bad.  And dust can block airflow, etc.  Water cooler - is pump working.    Power plan check and fan speed control.   

It sounds like you are on top of things. I write these things because others may have similar problems.

 

 

[Noel Borthwick]

Interesting. Sonars optimizations that allow better low latency performance also implicitly means its using your CPU more efficiently, by keeping it busy. So its not impossible that it creates more heat on a loaded project.