Make CbB perpetual license for 100-150 euro.

[Kurre]

If you make CbB perpetual license for 100-150 euro.

That gives you an extra income.

It should also mean that you can pay a procentage to Roland for TTS-1 and keep them happy.

Ought to suffice for some extra whining "property rights holders" if there are some.

.

Just a suggestion. 🎇

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

There are two major missteps with Sonar that have caused the most backlash and driven users to jump ship to other DAWs:

The new GUI – They’re only now starting to fix it almost two years on, but it should never have been released in that state.

The licensing model – Deeply unpopular from day one, with still no alternative option.

Both were completely avoidable own goals. With a bit of foresight and genuine engagement with the user base, neither issue needed to happen.

It’s a real shame — Sonar used to be one of the major DAWs in the industry. Now, for most people, it barely registers. Hopefully, now that they’ve finally addressed the GUI problem, they’ll listen to their users and rethink the licensing model.

[Terry Kelley]

Perpetual licenses were never an option for Bandlab financially. They need a continuous revenue stream.  So I don’t consider this a “mistake” as much as an unfortunate necessity given the baggage of the past.

I will be curious to see where the GUI finally lands once they get it completed. Getting close I think.

Edited Wednesday at 11:49 PM by Terry Kelley

[Misha]

In my humble opinion, there are only 5-10% of professional DAW users at any DAW world. Meaning, people who solely depend on every day DAW  use to make a living.  Wonder how many of those would enter a subscription model environment? Remaining  90% of DAW users, in my view, are mainly hobbyists, tinkerers, or use DAW in rare instances to complete a certain gig that requires particular software for the task. 

It will be interesting to get statistics on  how many of non full time DAW users will give up DAWs altogether in exchange for AI generated / assisted alternatives in the next few short years.  

I have no plans to enter the new tethered "free", or subscription BL offerings. Pre 2018 Cakewalk version does most of I need from a DAW. Plugins fill most of what is missing. On top of that I've purchased a license to another DAW that I've started learning as a future alternative if BL doesn't squeeze untethered licensing options within next year or two.

P.S. Mark said it right.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

6 hours ago, Misha said:

how many of non full time DAW users will give up DAWs altogether in exchange for AI generated / assisted alternatives in the next few short years.

I'm a hobbyist. Absolutely no chance of going down this road.

6 hours ago, Misha said:

On top of that I've purchased a license to another DAW that I've started learning

So you've bought that but won't pay for Sonar? Interesting

6 hours ago, Misha said:

I have no plans to enter the new tethered "free",

What part of free do you find unpalatable?

[Misha]

4 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

I'm a hobbyist. Absolutely no chance of going down this road.

But you are not in your teens or twenties.  Younger generation has a very different take (for the most part) on music recording. Sure, "garage bands" exist, but likely a tiny fraction of what it was 20-30 years back.  

 

4 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

So you've bought that but won't pay for Sonar? Interesting

I don't rent tethered software that could be unplugged at oracle's will at any time they decide suits them.  Same way as I don't rent socks I wear.  I still prefer Cakewalk/Sonar, but no longer have desire to play the game they offer. Once/if they roll out normal licenses, I am in, unless that "process" takes prolonged amount of time. 

 

4 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

What part of free do you find unpalatable?

Same reason that I suspected 7 years back. They are pulling a plug on "free" software, forcefully taking it away, instead  of showing their confidence in the future and simply unlocking it. Or unlocking CWBL with 1 full price of a year of subscription to new Sonar. Fair? 

To me, current move is heartless.  I blame my laziness of not getting into alternative DAW sooner.  But hey, thankfully there are choices, and who knows maybe BL will change their direction soon.  The ball was always in their court.  If current arrangement works for you, that is great.

[T Boog]

2 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

9 hours ago, Misha said:

On top of that I've purchased a license to another DAW that I've started learning

So you've bought that but won't pay for Sonar? Interesting

9 hours ago, Misha said:

I have no plans to enter the new tethered "free",

What part of free do you find unpalatable?

 Cheers Jonesey.

Misha said, "purchased a license" to another daw. That's completely diff than a subscription where at the end, u own NOTHING. Sounds to me like Misha WAS willing to pay for Sonar   ... Just not willing to lease it.

I too WANT to give my business (in the form of a purchase) to the Cakewalk team. But I'm not doing a subscription.

Anyway, I have a great backup daw as well...  that I OWN. However, I'd still like to purchase CbB or even Sonar(like they insinuated would be an option). But if Bandlab is eventually willing to lose my business by trying to force me to RENT it, than I am willing to lose Sonar. Especially since my other daw is by no means a step backwards.

Maybe I'd feel a little diff about subbing to Bandlab if I had any use for their other services, but I don't.

Also, I know what Misha means by "tethered". Those of us using free Sonar are at the whim of Bandlab's decision making. They can pull the rug on us at any time they choose. For someone like me who owns no previous versions of Cakewalk/Sonar, I would've been foolish not to backup my tracks to a paid version of another daw. I need to know I can access my old projects and I didn't wanna have all my hard work held for a yearly/monthly ransom. 

Bottom line, I think Misha, Kurre & myself are on the same page... We WANT to support Cakewalk/Sonar but they need to help us help them by offering a purchase option. After all, doesnt Bandlab know there's other good options out there for a one time, affordable purchase?

 

 

 

 

[T Boog]

9 minutes ago, Misha said:

I don't rent tethered software that could be unplugged at oracle's will at any time they decide suits them

Cheers Misha. I was coming to ur defense but u posted just ahead of me.  I see ur pretty good at defending urself anyway 😄

[Chaps]

8 minutes ago, T Boog said:

Bottom line, I think Misha, Kurre & myself are on the same page... We WANT to support Cakewalk/Sonar but they need to help us help them by offering a purchase option. After all, doesnt Bandlab know there's other good options out there for a one time, affordable purchase?

 

Personally, I am hoping that Sonar will eventually be offered with the old purchasing model where we can buy the program as is and pay for later major versions/upgrades. We get a program we own and the company has motivation to produce major upgrades.

[Misha]

2 minutes ago, Chaps said:

Personally, I am hoping that Sonar will eventually be offered with the old purchasing model where we can buy the program as is and pay for later major versions/upgrades.

You mean like most DAWs do?

----------

8 minutes ago, T Boog said:

I was coming to ur defense

  Bristol is a nice guy, I don't believe he had mean intentions. 

[Terry Kelley]

I was thinking about the OP again.
 

If Bandlab offered a perpetual license for CbB what sales might they lose?

I guess some Sonar renters could bail and go back to CbB but I wonder if it might bring in the people that won’t rent either way. The new Sonar GUI is functional but I would consider CbB over Sonar.  And perpetual for me must include never deactivating and never calling home and stopping if it can’t.

Maybe there are a few incremental bucks to be had. 

[T Boog]

1 minute ago, Misha said:

  Bristol is a nice guy, I don't believe he had mean intentions. 

Cheers Misha. Yeah, I know Jonesey is a nice guy. I wasn't trying to be mean either, I was just trying to clarify things. And I agree with u that whoever uses the subscription model and it works for them, more power to them. But the way I see it, 5 yrs of renting Sonar would cost me around $700 and I'd still own NOTHING at the end of those 5 years. Why on earth would I do that when my other daw works great too and I own it? It's only a matter of adjusting to a slightly diff work flow. I just think that Bandlab overestimates people's need for Sonar. But I guess time will tell wont it? 

PS. I thought I HAD to rent my socks. I'm excited to know that there's purchase options available now 😁

[Misha]

To be clear of where I am coming from:

April 12, 2018 in official letter BL said:

"We hope that you, the dedicated core of long-term SONAR users, will be able to keep creating music with your preferred workflow for decades to come"

False as of 2025.

-------------

2025

Cakewalk.com FAQ:

"Does Cakewalk Sonar's free license expire?

Cakewalk Sonar's free license is currently indefinite"

I have deep reservations about this statement basing on what was said earlier.

 

Unlocking, selling  perpetual license or keeping CWBL alive = honoring original promise.

 

 

 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 8/17/2025 at 3:47 AM, Misha said:

In my humble opinion, there are only 5-10% of professional DAW users at any DAW world. Meaning, people who solely depend on every day DAW  use to make a living.  Wonder how many of those would enter a subscription model environment? Remaining  90% of DAW users, in my view, are mainly hobbyists, tinkerers, or use DAW in rare instances to complete a certain gig that requires particular software for the task. 

The BandLab Membership itself doesn’t seem to cater for professional users. It’s clearly aimed at up-and-coming artists who need promo tools, distribution, mastering, etc. That’s a completely different crowd from the hobbyists we see on these forums.

Right now you’ve got three very distinct groups:

Hobbyists (mostly older) – just want a solid DAW to make music for themselves. They’ll happily buy once, maybe pay for an update every few years, but they aren’t spending monthly.

Aspiring/“wannabe” artists (younger) – they’re chasing exposure, playlists, distribution, branding tools. BandLab Membership is built for them, but they don’t care about a heavyweight DAW like Sonar. Most of them are in FL Studio, Ableton, Logic, or just on the BandLab app itself.

Professionals – We don’t need distribution bundles, mastering gimmicks or social features. We just need a rock-solid DAW that lets us work quickly and reliably, with clear licensing so we know our projects will always be accessible. That’s it.

The problem is BandLab’s marketing is all over the place. They’re trying to pitch Sonar to three very different audiences at once — but the product and business model don’t properly serve any of them. Hobbyists resent subscriptions, pros need ownership and stability, and the younger artist crowd doesn’t see Sonar as relevant or modern enough compared to the competition.

It just feels scattershot — like they’re tone-deaf to the core user base and missing the expectations of the next generation at the same time. So instead of capturing new users, they’re bleeding their legacy base while failing to onboard the younger crowd.

[Will.]

On 8/17/2025 at 4:47 AM, Misha said:

In my humble opinion, there are only 5-10% of professional DAW users at any DAW world.

What does the word "Professional" mean or acquire in today's world? If a 14,16,18-year-old have more sales and hits than the guy sitting in a multi-millionaire room. The world has more (and as you say) bedroom "professional" producers making grammy nominated songs with just a laptop, headphones and a USB microphone. Your 5% might be in the Orchestral world, but in the dominant genres of today - its literally kids in their bedrooms that's making more sales for labels than the - again, "professionals" < this word doesn't exist in music production anymore. 

Another example: The movie 28 Years Later with English actor Aaron Perry Taylor-Johnson - was shot with an iPhone. 

[Alan Tubbs]

The simple fact is that Bandlab believes it can make more money by renting the software than selling it.  I imagine bandlab have a Much better grasp of the financials than than us users - I know I don’t.  BL claims over a million users, tho most of those are free subs.  But BL  judged that buying the software once isn’t the best method to keep the software going, and we can count on one hand those users that continue to fight fora  paying model. Bandlab must figure that it ain’t worth it to lose a few buyers when most users can scrounge up monthly payments and provides some security for the future of Bandlab.

[ptheisen]

35 minutes ago, Alan Tubbs said:

we can count on one hand those users that continue to fight fora  paying model. Bandlab must figure that it ain’t worth it to lose a few buyers

I'm guessing that the reason it seems those users can be counted on one hand is that most of the many like-minded people have either left completely, or realized that it is indeed futile to continue the fight.

I realized this almost two years ago and started using another DAW. I see many former Cakewalk users on the other forum. I also tried out several other DAWs, and there is ample evidence of former Cakewalk users for each of them. I think Bandlab has lost way more than just a few.

In spite of this, Bandlab may still be financially ahead using the subscription model, good for them if it is true. They certainly have the right to do things the way they want . But it doesn't change the fact that they have inadvertently alienated many longtime users in the process, and each user has a similar right to do things the way they want, which may mean choosing a different DAW.

[Misha]

2 hours ago, Will. said:

What does the word "Professional" mean

In the scope of that particular statement, as I've mentioned: "people who solely depend on every day DAW  use to make a living. "  - A particular DAW, regardless of their age. It has nothing to do with how "professional" one can perform / record. 

I will miss a few things in latest CWBL, that my 2017 doesn't have, but unless BL comes up with normal licensing options,  I will surely migrate to another DAW in the next 1-2 years.  We are fortunate to have so many  untethered to sub choices.  

1 hour ago, ptheisen said:

it doesn't change the fact that they have inadvertently alienated many longtime users in the process

So true.