CW Sonar 2025.07 playback Dropouts/Stuttering, but not in CWbyB 2024.12 latest update

[Kristian Knudsen]

Hi,

Alienware Laptop Windows 11 and Roland Quad Capture.

CW Sonar 2025.07 playback Dropouts/Stuttering

Tried:

• buffer 128/256/512
• enable / disable MCSS for ASIO Driver
• enable / disable MCSS
• ThreadSchedulingModel 1,2,3

CWbyB 2024.12 latest update

works fine with default:

• buffer 256
• enable / disable MCSS
• ThreadSchedulingModel 1

 

Last post I found on this topic was from 2023 and it's only since trying out CW Sonar 2025.07 that I have seen this issue on my system with CW Sonar Platinum Lifetime, then CW by Bandlab (CWbyB)

Edited Tuesday at 04:13 PM by Kristian Knudsen

[David Baay]

A few more things to check/try:

Uninstall Steinberg Generic Low Latency ASIO driver if present.

Remove Realtek entry from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO in the registry.

Reset AUD.INI via Preferences > Audio > Configuration File > Reset...

If it doesn't help, you can restore the backup that the process creates. If it does help you can compare the two files to see what's different.

And, of course, make sure you're testing with the same project using the same audio and MIDI driver selection(s).

 

[Colin Nicholls]

Some other DAWS or Audio programs may reset the buffer size and other ASIO settings , but Sonar just opens and uses the ASIO settings at whatever they currently were set to last.

SO if you are comparing DAWs or whatever, double check before you open a project in Sonar that the ASIO buffer settings are where you expect them to be.

[Kristian Knudsen]

16 hours ago, David Baay said:

A few more things to check/try:

Uninstall Steinberg Generic Low Latency ASIO driver if present.

Remove Realtek entry from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO in the registry.

Reset AUD.INI via Preferences > Audio > Configuration File > Reset...

If it doesn't help, you can restore the backup that the process creates. If it does help you can compare the two files to see what's different.

And, of course, make sure you're testing with the same project using the same audio and MIDI driver selection(s).

 

Thanks, this might need to go to the SW team...

System:
Processor        Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz   2.21 GHz
Installed RAM    32,0 GB (31,9 GB usable)
System type      64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
HDD              Samsung 970 EVO Plus PCIe 3.0 SSD

Not so fun coincidence was Windows factory clean installed a few months ago (due to Windows/Nvidia problem like many have reported with the Windows  24H2 graphics change BSOD etc.)

Edition    Windows 11 Home
Version    24H2
Installed on    ‎20/‎05/‎2025
OS build    26100.4652
Experience    Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.26100.128.0

OS, APPs and Audio project are all on a this fast  PCIe 3.0 SSD.

 

"Steinberg Generic Low Latency ASIO driver" nope...

 

These are the only ASIO in registry:
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO\QUAD-CAPTURE
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ASIO\Realtek ASIO

 

Regarding "Reset AUD.INI via Preferences > Audio > Configuration File > Reset..." 

So maybe do the  "Reset AUD.INI" via "Reset Config..." not sure and where is the "AUD.INI" located?

In any case not sure this is relevant if I have the right drivers and no other ASIO.

 

The Driver current settings, but several different configs tested:

 

No Midi, my bands song example here is with 81 tracks sorted in groups: 

A few plugins are used, but almost exclusive Cakewalk (and I have currently no 3rd party installed), this runs without as hitch in CWbyB, but not in this new Sonar 2025. They have the same settings, I used default in CWbyB.

16 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Some other DAWS or Audio programs may reset the buffer size and other ASIO settings , but Sonar just opens and uses the ASIO settings at whatever they currently were set to last.

SO if you are comparing DAWs or whatever, double check before you open a project in Sonar that the ASIO buffer settings are where you expect them to be.

Yes I have other audio Software installed (I'm an Acoustic Engineer and Musician), but don't run them in parallel unless is use suspend mode etc, since Sonar is using the the Audio interface exclusively.

To test this I need to close Sonar 2025 completely and wait a second, after this start CWbyB. If you start either Bandlab DAWs to quickly the Audio interface in not released yet, this has always been like that. When using suspend mode etc. many other this can happen, so I try not to use it.

 

By going back and forth between the two DAWs there is only CW Sonar 2025.07 playback Dropouts/Stuttering. I don't have a reference on CW Sonar 2025.06, since I just installed this to test for the band, since we are using the DAW live for rehearsal and mix etc. on other PCs as well. Not currently testing until this is resolved.

CWbyB was running default, since no issued were observed, again only in CW Sonar 2025.07

[David Baay]

7 hours ago, Kristian Knudsen said:

81 tracks

Check that your Playback I/O [disk] Buffer is the same in Sonar as in CbB.

And do remove the Realtek ASIO entry from the registry; probably of no consequence, but it's not compliant and Sonar won't work with it anyway so it might as well be invisible. If you ever have a need to use the Realtek interface, change Sonar to WASAPI mode.

The "Configuration File" is AUD.INI; in the past we would rename it manually to have a new default one would be created automatically on launch. The Reset function just makes it easier, automatically backing up the existing file and replacing it with the default. Doing this after removing Realtek ASIO from the registry will ensure that AUD.INI contains no reference to it.

You might also try unchecking that 'Low Latency mode' box in the QuadCapture's ASIO panel. That reduces the interface's internal firmware buffer at the cost of some dropout-resistance.

[Kristian Knudsen]

This is my own system, currently not used for mixing etc. I'm the Bass players in the band and have done mixing and mastering before some years ago on my Sonar Platinum Lifetime license. My current system, is now better, though a few years old. I'm planing to switch everything over from testing CWbyB in my band to CW Sonar, since we can and now have to. I have tested CWbyB for years and never had any issues. Also I haven't performed system optimization tasks yet, not even latencymon etc.

CW Sonar 2025.07

Playback and record settings enabled "Use MMCSS", so back to default:

 

CW Sonar 2025.07 visual CPU usage via Task Manager...

No Project loaded: 

it's not 27% it fluctuates betwen 10-20% here and 27% is an odd peak

 

Project loaded, not playing:

looks very stable at about 50%

 

Project playing:

NB: there was only 1 dropout during these 20-30 seconds and it's not where the peaks are shown it was in the middle of the graphs.

 

CW by Bandlab 2024.12

CW by Bandlab 2024.12 Driver and Preferences screenshots (default, never changed):

 

 

CW by Bandlab 2024.12 visual CPU usage via Task Manager...

No Project loaded: 

it's not 17% it fluctuates between 10-15% here and 17% is an odd peak

 

Project loaded, not playing:

looks very stable at about 50%

 

Project playing:

This looks OK to me, no dropouts ...

 

As you mention I can try to test with disabling the Realtek ASIO ...

 

But first I will try to look into disable "Low Latency mode" box in the QuadCapture's Driver Settings through the ASIO panel.

This will not work since it gives many audible artifacts.

The Late Buffers of 189 is randomly low that one time, but still many artifacts (like a few lost samples like USB errors), though no dropouts like before.

 

This is with the default enabled "Low Latency mode" as only used.

This has no audio artifacts. The Late Buffers of 281 is randomly mid level that one time, in that parts there were no audible artifacts.

 

Lets compare that to CW by Bandlab 2024.12

This is with the enabled "Low Latency mode"

Late buffers are much lower on the same settings or are they?

Yes they are much lower and repeated tests did show a very very big difference between CWbyB and CW Sonar.

 

So do dropout happen in CWbyB,?

Yes, they can happen, but I never noticed it before and testing now so very much the same thing, it seems it's possible.

 

One difference is the "Threads: 11/12 Mixing" compared to "Audio Thread Priority: Time Critical (15)"

 

CW Sonar with nothing playing:

Enabled "Use MMCSS" and  Disable "Enabled MMCSS for ASIO Driver"

or more

within a few seconds it can just keep counting up and up, with nothing playing.

 

Enabled "Use MMCSS" and  Enable "Enabled MMCSS for ASIO Driver"

or more

 

 

CW by Bandlab  nothing playing:

Enabled "Use MMCSS" and  Disable "Enabled MMCSS for ASIO Driver"

Yes there are 23, but no more will show up by itself, can more happen while playing yes, but nothing comes when not playing.

 

Enabled "Use MMCSS" and  Enable "Enabled MMCSS for ASIO Driver"

Yes there are 36, but no more will show up by itself, can more happen while playing yes, but nothing comes when not playing.

 

I will look more into the Late Buffers etc. to see if I can get to Zero in the old one first.

Why is CW Sonar worse and is it just the thread type causing this?

 

So far Read buffer of 512 seems a good start...more testing and compare to follow  

Edited 13 hours ago by Kristian Knudsen

[Sergei Pilin]

It's just Sonar uses more CPU than Cakewalk for the same project. If a complex project in Cakewalk is on the verge of crackling but still plays fine, it may not play well in Sonar and start to dropout there. No settings could change that.

[Colin Nicholls]

9 hours ago, Sergei Pilin said:

It's just Sonar uses more CPU than Cakewalk for the same project. If a complex project in Cakewalk is on the verge of crackling but still plays fine, it may not play well in Sonar and start to dropout there. No settings could change that.

It's not absolute. Many folks have reported the exact opposite; that Sonar performs BETTER than CbB on the same project. So there must be some other factor here.

[Jorge Tata Arias]

27 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

No es absoluto. Mucha gente ha informado exactamente lo contrario: que el Sonar funciona MEJOR que el CbB en el mismo proyecto. Así que debe haber algún otro factor.

Absolutely, it is like that.