New FREE version/tier of the venerable Cakewalk Sonar

[Starship Krupa]

6 hours ago, CSistine said:

I guess that BL will soon stop CbB with the introduction of the "free" SONAR. Again, this would be an essential shift for the people using CbB, because they would be forced to change their installations/habits/workflows. And besides the functionality is probably reduced in some areas.

I've been using Sonar since it came out, and switching back and forth between it and CbB requires no adjustment that I can perceive except that some of the text and icons in important areas have shrunk and contrast also suffers in comparison to what you can do in CbB with themes and custom color sets..

Cakewalk have been pretty good about that kind of thing in recent years. It isn't some huge change like the SONAR X, it's not much different from using a custom CbB theme. I've noticed over the past 7 years with Cakewalk that new features that they have added don't usually replace something else, they augment what's already there and are easily hidden. The lone exception I can think of is the recent replacement of Track Manager with the one that docks in the Browser. This new Track Manager replaces the old one, and I guess Free Tier Sonar has neither of them.

As far as reduced functionality between Free Tier Sonar and CbB, they've explicitly listed what the differences are. I went over them in my post. They seem trivial to me.

I suspect that the CbB validation server will be shut down in the near future, then installations of CbB will switch to permanent demo mode after the last validation times out.

Sad to see that, because I have half a dozen themes that I put a lot of work into that are tailored to easy visibility, and as I said, Sonar is less friendly to people with impaired eyesight. Its failure to allow the user to even set grid line colors causes problems for me. I don't understand at all why users can't be allowed to make our own color choices. This feature was in CbB, it's in most other DAW's and it's easy to revert if a user messes up their colors.

[Terry Kelley]

I don’t think things went as planned. And something else is about to change.

The newer Sonar is nice but it’s not must have software. It’s not a “I don’t care what it costs, I just have to have it!” 

I would gladly pay a subscription for something I can’t live without, but Sonar isn’t it. If a reasonable perpetual license became available, I would consider it. But as it stands, Sonar has its little pluses but I can do everything I want elsewhere. 

So I watch the show.

Edited Sunday at 04:17 PM by Terry Kelley

[Starship Krupa]

5 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

I don’t think things went as planned. And something else is about to change.

Care to elaborate?

I'm glad my life doesn't depend on figuring out what BandLab have "planned" at any given point.

They seem to be full of surprises.

BTW, I tried an experiment where I logged Sonar out of BandLab and then logged back in using an account that doesn't have access to the premium tier, and the old style Track Manager is present in Free Tier Sonar.

Which actually makes its UI more similar to CbB's than Premium Tier Sonar's is.

[Terry Kelley]

Starship, I wasn't directing an insult at you. If you believe that I offer my apologize.  I was only critiquing the new offering and pondering the reasons.

[kitekrazy1]

BTW Cubase does the same thing,  All former elicenser products do that like VSL.

You gotta login to a web page using these. 

[Brian Walton]

51 minutes ago, Terry Kelley said:

I don’t think things went as planned. And something else is about to change.

The newer Sonar is nice but it’s not must have software. It’s not a “I don’t care what it costs, I just have to have it!” 

I would gladly pay a subscription for something I can’t live without, but Sonar isn’t it. If a reasonable perpetual license became available, I would consider it. But as it stands, Sonar has its little pluses but I can do everything I want elsewhere. 

So I watch the show.

Here is my hot take.  Years ago they bought Cakewalk and released it as free.  At that time the outcry was we don't believe you and expect they will charge us.  Over and over we were told the core platform and features would be free, but if they added back things like the Adaptive limiter EQ, synths, etc then those would potentially be paid products.

Honestly this feels like they are trying to keep their word after pulling the rug out for a few months with a sub only option.

Once again, we will see.

[Brian Walton]

5 hours ago, sjoens said:

What does it omit?

Well this is odd.  Now that I have both installed the Boz Pro Channels no longer show up in CbB - and also not in Sonar (I had the paid Hoser XT, as well as the Bark of a Dog)

[Billy86]

On 6/21/2025 at 5:51 AM, aidan o driscoll said:

@MusicMan No failure for me on any plugins inc ARTURIA

however I recently did a complete cleanup of my plugins ( like you I have a lot ) ..

i just went to the VST folders and moved the ones i dont use anymore to another backup folder. I was being honest with myself  .. Alot are freebies i installed, never used and had left them there

Also seperated the 32 bit VSTS to another folder that I DO NOT scan

I’m interested in doing this clean up of the zillions of plugins I never use. Can you tell me what exactly I need to move in a “Plugin Archive “ folder I’ll create to keep them from being scanned? There’s two files, right? A .dll and another one? Thanks much. 

[sjoens]

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

it's not much different from using a custom CbB theme.

Basically they're someone else's custom themes.  

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

Starship, I wasn't directing an insult at you. If you believe that I offer my apologize.  I was only critiquing the new offering and pondering the reasons.

I didn't take it as an insult at all. I really do want to know what you think may be about to happen.

Multiple of your hunches about how things would play out have turned out to be prescient. More so than some of my own that I was pretty sure about. Notably the absence of The Licensing Model That Must Not Be Named.

I'm glad that one of my hunches, that BandLab would not hang people out to dry in regard to a free licensed Cakewalk/Sonar, turned out to be accurate. I really didn't want to have to answer to the people I've hooked up with CbB over the years.

[Pragi]

I like the idea of a free version of Cakewalk Sonar, thank you, Bandlab.

The software version changes and the constant switching from:

no development to free CbB to

Cakewalk Sonar to

free Calewalk Sonar to

subscription and others

leaves too much room for speculation and leaves  a confused user base, in my opinion.

Please,please, please  go on to develope my favourite and   best DAW of all and,

if you ask me, give us a perpetual license 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Pragi

[aidan o driscoll]

I also assume this new "free" Sonar will be getting regular updates vs Cakewalk by Bandlab .. not sure the latter is still getting updates, not many anyway?

 

[aidan o driscoll]

21 hours ago, Billy86 said:

I’m interested in doing this clean up of the zillions of plugins I never use. Can you tell me what exactly I need to move in a “Plugin Archive “ folder I’ll create to keep them from being scanned? There’s two files, right? A .dll and another one? Thanks much. 

@Billy86  I simply created a few folders inside a folder called AUDIO DATA ( call the folders what you like ). Inside AUDIO DATA folder I created three more folders:

- vstplugins32
- vstplugins64
- vsteffects

Self explanitory I hope ..

Of course we also have C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 where all the VST3s go. You could setup a C:\Program Files\Common Files\VStEffects if you want

With all the folders setup copy/move the appropriate vsts ( vst2 = .dll,  // .vst3 =  you guessed ) to the appropriate folders.

I DO NOT include a path to the vstplugins32 in Cakewalk / Edit / Prefs ( Advanced ) / vst .. only the other 3 or 4 paths. I have a 32 bit folder in case some vsts still insist installing one. I seperate out my EFX plugins from instuments because I also use audio editing programs like soundforge, audacity that only need the VST Effects and not the VSTi instruments.

 

 

[Billy86]

1 hour ago, aidan o driscoll said:

@Billy86  I simply created a few folders inside a folder called AUDIO DATA ( call the folders what you like ). Inside AUDIO DATA folder I created three more folders:

- vstplugins32
- vstplugins64
- vsteffects

Self explanitory I hope ..

Of course we also have C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 where all the VST3s go. You could setup a C:\Program Files\Common Files\VStEffects if you want

With all the folders setup copy/move the appropriate vsts ( vst2 = .dll,  // .vst3 =  you guessed ) to the appropriate folders.

I DO NOT include a path to the vstplugins32 in Cakewalk / Edit / Prefs ( Advanced ) / vst .. only the other 3 or 4 paths. I have a 32 bit folder in case some vsts still insist installing one. I seperate out my EFX plugins from instuments because I also use audio editing programs like soundforge, audacity that only need the VST Effects and not the VSTi instruments.

 

 

Got it. Thanks for the info...

[Mr No Name]

On 6/22/2025 at 5:08 PM, Starship Krupa said:

I've been using Sonar since it came out, and switching back and forth between it and CbB requires no adjustment that I can perceive except that some of the text and icons in important areas have shrunk and contrast also suffers in comparison to what you can do in CbB with themes and custom color sets..

Cakewalk have been pretty good about that kind of thing in recent years. It isn't some huge change like the SONAR X, it's not much different from using a custom CbB theme. I've noticed over the past 7 years with Cakewalk that new features that they have added don't usually replace something else, they augment what's already there and are easily hidden. The lone exception I can think of is the recent replacement of Track Manager with the one that docks in the Browser. This new Track Manager replaces the old one, and I guess Free Tier Sonar has neither of them.

As far as reduced functionality between Free Tier Sonar and CbB, they've explicitly listed what the differences are. I went over them in my post. They seem trivial to me.

I suspect that the CbB validation server will be shut down in the near future, then installations of CbB will switch to permanent demo mode after the last validation times out.

Sad to see that, because I have half a dozen themes that I put a lot of work into that are tailored to easy visibility, and as I said, Sonar is less friendly to people with impaired eyesight. Its failure to allow the user to even set grid line colors causes problems for me. I don't understand at all why users can't be allowed to make our own color choices. This feature was in CbB, it's in most other DAW's and it's easy to revert if a user messes up their colors.

you're themes are great, I have the 1970's yellow installed, makes using the cakewalk daw a more joyful experience.

(I changed one of the yellows slightly to a more orange shade)

 

How did the 1970's happen?

who took responsibility.

[Magic Russ]

3 hours ago, aidan o driscoll said:

@Billy86  I simply created a few folders inside a folder called AUDIO DATA ( call the folders what you like ). Inside AUDIO DATA folder I created three more folders:

- vstplugins32
- vstplugins64
- vsteffects

 

I actually have a VstPlugins32 and a VstPlugins32Only. 

The first is a dumping ground for plugins which have 32 and 64 bit versions, and the second is for older things like Delay Lama which are offered in 32 bit only versions.

When I was still using 32 bit DAWs such as Project 5, I would have them scan both of these folders.  Newer DAWs would only scan the 32Only folder, so that I didn't have to see the 32 and 64 bit versions of a plugin in plugin manager.

[User 905133]

On 6/22/2025 at 12:08 PM, Starship Krupa said:

Sad to see that, because I have half a dozen themes that I put a lot of work into that are tailored to easy visibility, and as I said, Sonar is less friendly to people with impaired eyesight. Its failure to allow the user to even set grid line colors causes problems for me. I don't understand at all why users can't be allowed to make our own color choices. This feature was in CbB, it's in most other DAW's and it's easy to revert if a user messes up their colors.

I am still hoping that once the new Cakewalk Sonar is firmly established the promise of a Theme Editor will become a priority.

As a person with aging eyesight who has explored the uses of color using the CbB Theme Editor to help with visual issues, I feel the benefits of user preferences cannot be overemphasized. 

Quote

Q: Do people perceive colors differently?

A: Yes, people perceive colors differently due to various factors. These include biological differences in the eye, such as the types of cones present, and also how the brain processes visual information. Additionally, cultural background and language can influence how individuals categorize and interpret colors. 

Different color schemes might also impact creativity and productivity for individuals who fall within a "normal" range of vision.

We were told that there would not be a Theme Editor initially and I haven't given up hope that it is still a possibility somewhere down the road.

[Starship Krupa]

3 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

you're themes are great, I have the 1970's yellow installed, makes using the cakewalk daw a more joyful experience.

(I changed one of the yellows slightly to a more orange shade)

How did the 1970's happen?

who took responsibility.

You're using Yellow Submarine? Cool! I haven't gotten much feedback on my themes except from fellow themesters. But since they appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into extensive theme creation more than actually using them (not surprising, they have their own ultra-tweaked themes), it's different from hearing from someone who actually uses it.

Especially one of the ones that was based on an animated movie (I did another one based on Neon Genesis: Evangelion).

How did the 70's happen? Same reason Yellow Submarine did. The Beatles took LSD, and they were so influential that whatever they came up with afterward was going to wind up being the world's "theme." And since they broke up at the beginning of the 70's, we were stuck with what they were up to at the height of psychedelic garishness. The designers of furniture and fashion had to extrapolate from there.

I'm being silly here, but not entirely. My Yellow Submarine theme is based on animated movie about The Beatles that came out in 1969, but you read it as a "70's" theme. The Beatles were  the "theme creators" of the time when they existed. We were stuck with modifying the last themes they did for about 10 years. I remember Isaac Asimov writing in the 70's "I have long hair today because 10 years ago, 4 kids from Liverpool felt that going to the barber was a drag."

As for who took responsibility, nobody. "Responsibility" was not a popular concept in the "Me" decade.😆

[Billy86]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

You're using Yellow Submarine? Cool! I haven't gotten much feedback on my themes except from fellow themesters. But since they appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into extensive theme creation more than actually using them (not surprising, they have their own ultra-tweaked themes), it's different from hearing from someone who actually uses it.

Especially one of the ones that was based on an animated movie (I did another one based on Neon Genesis: Evangelion).

How did the 70's happen? Same reason Yellow Submarine did. The Beatles took LSD, and they were so influential that whatever they came up with afterward was going to wind up being the world's "theme." And since they broke up at the beginning of the 70's, we were stuck with what they were up to at the height of psychedelic garishness. The designers of furniture and fashion had to extrapolate from there.

I'm being silly here, but not entirely. My Yellow Submarine theme is based on animated movie about The Beatles that came out in 1969, but you read it as a "70's" theme. The Beatles were  the "theme creators" of the time when they existed. We were stuck with modifying the last themes they did for about 10 years. I remember Isaac Asimov writing in the 70's "I have long hair today because 10 years ago, 4 kids from Liverpool felt that going to the barber was a drag."

As for who took responsibility, nobody. "Responsibility" was not a popular concept in the "Me" decade.😆

I finally made the leap and got the year subscription of Sonar for $49. The color/contrast level of the GUI is terrible.  I can hardly make anything out. Are people doing themes and sharing them?

[Starship Krupa]

18 minutes ago, Billy86 said:

I finally made the leap and got the year subscription of Sonar for $49. The color/contrast level of the GUI is terrible.  I can hardly make anything out. Are people doing themes and sharing them?

I'm 64 and my vision isn't getting any better. While I like the look of NuSonar, I agree that there are visibility issues.

Unfortunately, there is no theming available to end users. We can't even choose any meaningful colors. All we can do is go to the color settings and choose one of the factory color schemes, all of which use varying shades of grey for everything but buttons and some text. They seem to be designed more for overall appearance than visibility.

The only cause I can think of is that Ben must have the contrast on his monitors cranked way up. That's not an option for me, I also use my workstation for photo and video editing, and if I set my monitors so that NuSonar has better visibility, the colors in photos and videos is messed up.

The most recent release has improved on the contrast in grid lines, but it's still nowhere as good as when I could choose actual colors rather than varying shades of grey. In CbB I used red for the measure lines and green or blue for the beat lines, depending on which of my themes I was using. It looked great and really helped with visibility.

As someone who spent weeks on each of my half a dozen custom CbB themes, I'm very disappointed in the lack of customizable options in NuSonar's UI.

If you don't like this situation, please post in the Feedback forum. I've been lobbying for at least allowing users to change the colors of the grid lines. I'd also like to be able to set text colors in various locations. The only color theme that currently uses anything but white on black is Mercury Classic.