Is Firewire Dead?

[MisterGreen]

I'm starting a new build and research tell me that I might not be able to use my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40. I've read in various places that firewire may or may not work with Windows 11. Some say it works using legacy drivers, others say it doesn't. Does anyone have any experience with firewire audio interfaces on Windows 11?

[phantom flower]

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Edited February 7 by Back from the Abit KT7
save electricity

[Starship Krupa]

I'm still using my Pro 40 on Windows 10 and it works a treat. I haven't tried it with my Windows 11 test system, but maybe I should.

I know of no inherent reason that Firewire wouldn't work in Windows 11.

Are you considering installing Windows 10 instead of 11 in order to be able to keep using your Pro 40? Or are you weighing the possibility of buying a newer USB interface?

If the day ever comes that my Pro 40's (I have two of them) stop working with Windows, I hope to still be able to use their 8 inputs via ADAT connection to a newer interface.

[mettelus]

The legacy drivers pre-date Win 10 (by a lot), so the only thing to check would be that your FW card can be installed. If you are not transferring a card over (i.e., using VIA port on the current box), be sure to get a FW card with a TI chipset on it. The legacy driver is called "Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller," version 10.0.19041.1, and dated 6/21/2006. Other chipsets were known to have issues even before Win 10.

[Mr No Name]

On 2/5/2025 at 10:15 PM, Starship Krupa said:

I'm still using my Pro 40 on Windows 10 and it works a treat. I haven't tried it with my Windows 11 test system, but maybe I should.

I know of no inherent reason that Firewire wouldn't work in Windows 11.

Are you considering installing Windows 10 instead of 11 in order to be able to keep using your Pro 40? Or are you weighing the possibility of buying a newer USB interface?

If the day ever comes that my Pro 40's (I have two of them) stop working with Windows, I hope to still be able to use their 8 inputs via ADAT connection to a newer interface.

Can I ask which cables you are using to attach to a thunderbolt 3 port on your laptop ? or are you using a pc with a firewire card ?

[Starship Krupa]

2 minutes ago, Mr No Name said:

using a pc with a firewire card

This.

If you want to know more about Thunderbolt 3 to Firewire connections, I believe that @Jim Roseberry has experience with that.

[Mr No Name]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

This.

If you want to know more about Thunderbolt 3 to Firewire connections, I believe that @Jim Roseberry has experience with that.

If I was to use a saffire pro 40 and send an output to a scarlett 2i4 connected to a laptop via usb, would this negate the need for firewire and saffire drivers?  can the saffire pro 40 be used passively? 

[Mr No Name]

One last question. Can you daisy chain them together  to use one firewire output? the saffire pro 40's?

[Jim Roseberry]

18 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

If I was to use a saffire pro 40 and send an output to a scarlett 2i4 connected to a laptop via usb, would this negate the need for firewire and saffire drivers?  can the saffire pro 40 be used passively? 

You can technically daisy-chain Firewire peripherals.

If you're using a PCIe Firewire controller, most have three Firewire outputs (often one Firewire-400 and two Firewire-800).  You can adapt Firewire-800 to Firewire-400 peripherals.

Regarding Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter:  Apple makes a Thunderbolt-2 to Firewire adapter.  You'd need a Thunderbolt-3>Thunderbolt-2 adapter... and connect the Thunderbolt-2>Firewire adapter to that.  The issue you're going to bump into with Thunderbolt-4 controllers; there's been a recent firmware update that breaks compatibility with Thunderbolt-2 peripherals.

If you just want to use the Pro 40 as an A/D converter (Analog to Lightpipe digital output), you could route the Pro 40's Lightpipe output (8 channels at 44.1k/48k) to a USB audio interface (assuming it has Lightpipe inputs). 

 

[MisterGreen]

On 2/5/2025 at 5:15 PM, Starship Krupa said:

I'm still using my Pro 40 on Windows 10 and it works a treat. I haven't tried it with my Windows 11 test system, but maybe I should.

I know of no inherent reason that Firewire wouldn't work in Windows 11.

Are you considering installing Windows 10 instead of 11 in order to be able to keep using your Pro 40? Or are you weighing the possibility of buying a newer USB interface?

If the day ever comes that my Pro 40's (I have two of them) stop working with Windows, I hope to still be able to use their 8 inputs via ADAT connection to a newer interface.

I'm building a new Windows 11 PC and if the Pro 40 is not compatible, then a new USB interface is what I'll have to get.

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, Mr No Name said:

If I was to use a saffire pro 40 and send an output to a scarlett 2i4 connected to a laptop via usb, would this negate the need for firewire and saffire drivers?  can the saffire pro 40 be used passively? 

I believe that the Pro 40 can be used as a standalone powered mixer, if that's what you mean by "passively."

With a 2i4 you wouldn't be able to simultaneously route its individual channels to the DAW to get more than the 2i4's 2 tracks.

However, if you get a USB interface with ADAT input, such as the Scarlett 16i16, which by itself has only 2 inputs, the Pro 40 can be used as an expander to add 8 more channels via its ADAT output. This is how I plan on using mine if Firewire finally does go away, or if I switch to a computer that can't accept expansion cards. In this scenario, all software chores are handled by the USB device's driver and control panel. The Pro 40 would be sending data to the USB device, which would pass it on to the host device using its USB connection. 

This is already in common use, Focusrite's OctoPre is one of many ADAT expanders designed to be used that way.

Another development that might be an extinction-level event for me and Firewire would be if Microsoft's planned audio-optimized USB driver for Windows 11 actually does what Pete Brown thinks it can (shown by independent testing).

At that point, I might get a 16i16 or an Audient iD14, a USB interface similar to the 16i16 but less expensive, also only 2 preamps of its own, with  channel ADAT input. Brand doesn't matter, to the Audient, or any other interface with ADAT in, what comes in via ADAT is just raw data, it doesn't care who the manufacturer was.

One caveat is that you might need to use a Firewire-equipped computer one last time to configure the Pro 40's routing, so that all inputs are routed straight to their corresponding ADAT outputs. If you haven't changed the routing from stock, that probably wouldn't be a problem.

Yet another possibility would be a USB interface that also has S/PDIF input, since the Pro 40 has S/PDIF out. That would only add 2 more channels to whatever the new interface already had, but it would still be a worthy use for a Pro 40.

So you see, whatever happens, there's no reason to toss a working Pro 40 or any other recording interface that can output its channels via ADAT. It should still have plenty of life left in it switched to expansion duty.

While it's true that a new Scarlett 16i16 costs about $150 more than a 2i4, even Behringer's cheapest 8 channel ADAT preamp is $150. Focusrite's OctoPre is $500 and has similar preamps to the Pro 40. The 16i16 also has 8 pin DIN MIDI, which is a must-have feature for me.

I wonder how many working 8 channel Firewire interfaces have been chucked due to Firewire fear that could still be in use as 8 channel ADAT expanders. I hate to see anything go to waste.