Andrew Scheps on Mixing with Headphones

[bitflipper]

This is a point I've been making ever since I read Floyd Toole's excellent book Sound Reproduction. Regardless of whether you have high-end speakers in a well-treated room or you're making do with cheap headphones, your own brain will, given time, come to recognize what a good mix sounds like on those speakers.

That's why I always recommend spending a few hours listening to your favorite records after you've bought new speakers or headphones.  Many people (incorrectly) believe that speakers sound better after they've been "broken in", when in fact they just sound better because your ears and brain have become accustomed to them and will automatically compensate for whatever those speakers are lacking.

Always feels good when an undisputed expert agrees with you.

 

[OutrageProductions]

I've had several different mains monitors in the walls since 1988, my all time faves being Westlake HR-1's, followed closely by some Genelec 1234's and Massenberg units (at Blackbird in Nashville).
But I've been mixing 98% on either Yamaha NS-10M's [with a SONY consumer 5" sub] (yeah... I know, go ahead and laugh) since 1989, and for the last 15 years an additional pair of Mackie 10" powered units. Once you get really used to what they sound like in a reasonably treated room, mixes translate very well nearly everywhere else, at least in my personal career.

It really does come down to developing the muscle memory for what ever you prefer to use and LOTS of ear training. And NEVER listening too loud for an extended period. If ya gots the ears, you're golden... if ya don't... hire someone that does.

I do most of my tracking and Ivory Soap mixing using headphones (Beyer DT700 pro-x or AT D40fs's) and never have had anyone complain that "it doesn't sound good" when the final product is delivered.
I never liked 'em, but had a colleague who swore by Sony 7506's, which were great for FOH live work, but IMHO sukt in the studio.
To each their own...

Edited Tuesday at 09:54 PM by OutrageProductions

[craigb]

Somebody is really named Fap Dupont??? 😮

Dayam!

[bitflipper]

I know, right?

But I'll not speculate whether that's the name his mother gave him or a nom de guerre, lest I violate some rule.

[bitflipper]

4 hours ago, OutrageProductions said:

Once you get really used to what they sound like in a reasonably treated room, mixes translate very well...

Well said.

I just bought some fancy earbuds last week, for stage monitoring. At first I was disappointed that at $400 they sounded way worse than my $200 Sennheiser headphones. But after several hours listening to a wide selection of music, and then using them during a 3-hour band rehearsal, I concluded that they didn't sound that bad after all. They're gonna work out just fine.

I had the same experience when I had to replace my studio monitors in a hurry, to replace a pair that had gone *****-up. With no money set aside, I settled for some speakers from Focal that were noticeably less flat and bass-light than their predecessors. No, these aren't the good Focals that I'd lusted after since the first time I heard them, but a far cheaper entry-level model. Yes, there were translation issues at first, as I foolishly tried to compensate for their weaknesses with EQ. But after a couple years with them, I actually like them quite a lot now and have no issues with translation.

[Terry Kelley]

Regardless of the number of different speakers and headphones I’ve used over the millennia, if I mixed in headphones, the mix balance is off on ANY loudspeakers.

So I don’t. I might rough it out but I mix on my monitors and check on my dipoles. Those two agree. 

[Shane_B.]

I have Yamaha HS-80's. I've never been able to hear bass on them. Even when listening to pro mixes. I attribute that to the room and their placement, and maybe my hearing a little.

I recently bought a pair of small Bose Bluetooth speakers and paired them in stereo mode. I was floored by how good they sound and the bass. Far better than my "pro" HS-80's. That said, moving the Bose speakers a 6 to 12 inches one way or the other dramatically changed the bass.

I've never been able to place the HS-80's where they should be because of size limitations of the rooms I've had them in. It says in the manual for best response place them "5 feet from walls".

[bitflipper]

It's a generally-accepted principle that whatever your speakers are weak at is what your mixes will overcompensate for. Usually, they're talking about deep bass. If your monitors can't reproduce very low frequencies, then gauging your mix's bass levels can only ever be a shot in the dark and likely to come out too hot. Conversely, speakers with hyped bass will encourage bass-light mixes. Consequently, the "you can make anything work" concept assumes that your budget speakers/headphones meet at least bare-minimum requirements. Laptop speakers and stock Apple earbuds will only ever translate by accident.

A good example is Audio Technica's ATH-M50, a longtime favorite for cheap-ish (~$150) but good-enough headphones that will do the job pretty well. They are far from flat (no headphones are), with hyped bass and uneven highs. But spend enough time with them and you can create well-balanced mixes. 

Personally, I'm a speaker guy. For me, headphones are either a secondary reference or for fine editing. But then I don't mix in hotel rooms or on the beach. I'm always in the same space, seated in the sweet spot and surrounded by absorption. Consistency is the key, regardless of what you're listening on.

On 1/8/2025 at 2:03 PM, Shane_B. said:

I've never been able to place the HS-80's where they should be because of size limitations of the rooms I've had them in. It says in the manual for best response place them "5 feet from walls".

That's because the HS-80s are rear-ported speakers, which can cause bass buildup between the ports and the rear wall. I've seen the benefit of moving them away from the wall first-hand, and it was a dramatic improvement. They didn't get stronger bass (they're still relatively small enclosures) but the bass response was smoother and flatter. The studio's owner later reported that the quality of his mixes had noticeably improved and he spent far less time fiddling with bass.

One potential solution for you would to add a sub and cross it over at a relatively high frequency, e.g. 100 Hz. You could then move the sub around the room until you find the ideal location - it doesn't have to be in front of you or equidistant between the main speakers. One neat trick I learned back when I had a sub was to set it on the chair in the mix position and then crawl around the floor until it sounds good, then move the sub there.

[jesse g]

This is a testimony from an excellent mixer, which shows that not all great headphones  have to cost $500 and up ⬆️

 

 
(Sony MDR 7506)   = $99.99