Sonar bug? Drag/drop Midi stops audio engine?

[Sal Sorice]

Not sure if it is something with my setup or others can replicate as well. I've noticed that if I try and drag/drop a Midi Clip in/out of Sonar (current version), the Audio Engine stops.

In the video, note that the Audio Engine is running, but as soon as I drag the clip to the Desktop, the Engine stops.

Tried in several projects and get the same I get the same result in all. Also happens a lot when I drag Midi from Sonar to EZ Drummer 3

[Wookiee]

@Sal Sorice I suggest you report either on the website reporting page or by email to support@cakewalk.com include the project, include any additional information you have, i. e. What version of Kontakt, what library you are using, if the project has audio already recorded don't include that it is not needed.

[Sal Sorice]

Thanks @Wookiee  I’ll report it to support. Don’t think it is a Kontakt issue, as it happens with non Kontakt projects as well. 
 

I’m hoping others do a quick test to see if it is common, or just happening to me. If you have a chance give it a try. Thanks!

[Bristol_Jonesey]

Works fine here

[User 905133]

Quote

. . . I've noticed that if I try and drag/drop a Midi Clip in/out of Sonar (current version) . . . .

Thanks for mentioning this! I never knew (or I once knew but forgot) we could drag MIDI Clips to other music applications, but I tried dropping a clip from CbB to the MIDI File Player in Voltage Modular (Standalone) and it worked.  I'll defer to others re: Cakewalk Sonar.

Edited November 18 by user 905133

[David Baay]

3 hours ago, Sal Sorice said:

the Audio Engine is running, but as soon as I drag the clip to the Desktop, the Engine stops.

I can repro that when the transport is stopped. If it's running, the engine stays on. Given that, I see no reaosn that it would need to be turned off when idling.

In the mean time, I recommend binding something to 'run/stop audio engine' so you can toggle it on/off as needed without having to mouse to the tiny button or run the transport. I often toggle it off when walking away from the PC to conserve energy.

 

[Jeremy Oakes]

4 hours ago, Sal Sorice said:

ot sure if it is something with my setup or others can replicate as well. I've noticed that if I try and drag/drop a Midi Clip in/out of Sonar (current version), the Audio Engine stops.

In the video, note that the Audio Engine is running, but as soon as I drag the clip to the Desktop, the Engine stops.

Tried in several projects and get the same I get the same result in all. Also happens a lot when I drag Midi from Sonar to EZ Drummer 3

Have tried this with EZ Drummer 3, when the transport is working and when its not. Cannot reproduce.

J

[Sal Sorice]

Thanks all for the comments! I'll do some more tests when at my PC later and see if I can find a trend, but from what I remember, I can even open a new, blank project and try dragging in a Midi clip - and the engine stops.

[David Baay]

41 minutes ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

Have tried this with EZ Drummer 3, when the transport is working and when its not. Cannot reproduce.

I don't see it when drag-dropping from a track to a VSTi or vice versa, nor when dragging MIDI into a project from File Explorer - only when dragging MIDI out to file.

[Sal Sorice]

I did some experimenting, and it seems that dragging Midi INTO Sonar does not reliably cause the Engine to stop (but sometimes does, depending on the instrument/plugin), but dragging Midi OUT of Sonar does cause the Engine to stop - very easy to replicate, as @David Baay mentioned.

Can anyone else try / confirm?

I'll wait for a few more replies and will let support@cakewalk.com know

[Bristol_Jonesey]

No, I'm not seeing this (as I mentioned earlier).

I can drag Midi clips to my desktop with total impunity.

[Sal Sorice]

3 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

No, I'm not seeing this (as I mentioned earlier).

I can drag Midi clips to my desktop with total impunity.

Thanks @Bristol_Jonesey. Are we on same version?

I'm on
2024.09-MEM (Build 105, 64 bit)

[msmcleod]

Just a FYI - if you're running Sonar as Administrator (which you really shouldn't be), then drag/drop to & from the application won't work.  This is a restriction Windows puts on any application running as Administrator.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

2 hours ago, Sal Sorice said:

Thanks @Bristol_Jonesey. Are we on same version?

I'm on
2024.09-MEM (Build 105, 64 bit)

Yes, exactly the same. I've been testing this on a Dell XPS170 Win 11 laptop

[Sal Sorice]

18 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Just a FYI - if you're running Sonar as Administrator (which you really shouldn't be), then drag/drop to & from the application won't work.  This is a restriction Windows puts on any application running as Administrator.

Thanks @msmcleod that may be it. I’ll test and report back.  

 

[David Baay]

3 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Just a FYI - if you're running Sonar as Administrator (which you really shouldn't be), then drag/drop to & from the application won't work.

I don't have it running As Admin and am able to repro the issue.

Just to clarify: It's not that the clip can't be successfully copied to the file system by drag-drop, it's that the audio engine is turned off by the action. This isn't a huge issue but an inconvenience if you're depending on live input monitoring of any internal or external audio with the transport stopped. And if you don't notice the audio engine turned off you could be scratching your head for a while, trying to figure out what happened to your audio.

P.S. I can repro this in the final 17.10 release of SONAR Platinum, but not in X3 or earlier.

Edited November 19 by David Baay

[Bristol_Jonesey]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

I don't have it running As Admin and am able to repro the issue.

Just to clarify: It's not that the clip can't be successfully copied to the file system by drag-drop, it's that the audio engine is turned off by the action. This isn't a huge issue but an inconvenience if you're depending on live input monitoring of any internal or external audio with the transport stopped. And if you don't notice the audio engine turned off you could be scratching your head for a while, trying to figure out what happened to your audio.

P.S. I can repro this in the final 17.10 release of SONAR Platinum, but not in X3 or earlier.

Still not happening here David. I can drag/drop to desktop even with the transport running. Sure it glitches momentarily (to be expected) but the audio engine never switches off

[sjoens]

Sonar Demo doesn't allow this but speaking of momentary audio glitches, in CbB drag-copying MIDI clips to the desktop does not affect the audio engine on my system but things like closing Preferences window during playback will.

FWIW, drag-copying audio clips out of Sonar/CbB cannot be done during playback as the audio engine is busy.

[David Baay]

27 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

I can drag/drop to desktop even with the transport running.

As noted, it's not a problem when the transport is running, only when stopped, so you have to actually look at the state of button or be monitoring some live input to know that the audio engine has turned off. As soon as you run the transport, it's going to restart automatically.

This may still be a system- or configuration-specific issue, but I wanted to be clear about the conditions.

I'm seeing it on both  a laptop and a desktop machine, and have tested with two different ASIO interfaces plus WASAPI.

I've also looked into various possible configuration factors like ensuring that 'Suspend Audio Engine When Sonar is not in Focus' is disabled and 'Always Stream Audio Through FX' is enabled', but have not yet found anything that makes a difference.

When dragging a MIDI clip out, the engine stops as soon as the mouse cursor leaves the UI. If I change focus to the desktop or another app by clicking out of Sonar or alt+tabbing away, the engine keeps running. It's just this very specific case of copying a MIDI file out that does it.

[Sal Sorice]

2 hours ago, David Baay said:

I don't have it running As Admin and am able to repro the issue.

Just to clarify: It's not that the clip can't be successfully copied to the file system by drag-drop, it's that the audio engine is turned off by the action. This isn't a huge issue but an inconvenience if you're depending on live input monitoring of any internal or external audio with the transport stopped. And if you don't notice the audio engine turned off you could be scratching your head for a while, trying to figure out what happened to your audio.

P.S. I can repro this in the final 17.10 release of SONAR Platinum, but not in X3 or earlier.

@David Baay

 

1 minute ago, David Baay said:

As noted, it's not a problem when the transport is running, only when stopped, so you have to actually look at the state of button or be monitoring some live input to know that the audio engine has turned off. As soon as you run the transport, it's going to restart automatically.

This may still be a system- or configuration-specific issue, but I wanted to be clear about the conditions.

I'm seeing it on both  a laptop and a desktop machine, and have tested with two different ASIO interfaces plus WASAPI.

I've also looked into various possible configuration factors like ensuring that 'Suspend Audio Engine When Sonar is not in Focus' is disabled and 'Always Stream Audio Through FX' is enabled', but have not yet found anything that makes a difference.

When dragging a MIDI clip out, the engine stops as soon as the mouse cursor leaves the UI. If I change focus to the desktop or another app by clicking out of Sonar or alt+tabbing away, the engine keeps running. It's just this very specific case of copying a MIDI file out that does it.

Exactly the same behavior for me.

I tried it both as an admin and as a standard account - no difference.

Like David says, as soon as the mdi clip you're dragging leaves the Sonar window (whether the destination is the Desktop, a folder, EZ Drummer 3, etc.)  the Engine stops.

Not a dealbreaker, but it seems like it is a Sonar issue - not a Windows issue.