Sonar 2024.09 Feedback

[Morten Saether]

Hi all - please use this topic to post feedback specific to the Sonar 2024.09 release. Release-specific feedback is valuable to us, and consolidating it in a single topic is extremely helpful.

We request that  discussion in this thread be restricted to issues directly concerning this release, to make it easier for us to assist users. For other topics, kindly use the feature request section or create new posts.  Off topic messages will be deleted.

Thanks in advance!

Sonar 2024 Overview

[noynekker]

Perhaps you could clarify the optimizations for MIDI playback . . . I've had my MIDI buffer size set to 500 msec for many years, which seems to work for my small size projects, though, I usually do audio exports in "real time" because there used to be missed notes when set too low . . . is this a kind of fix for that ?  Is it now advisable or possible  to run at a lower MIDI buffer size because of the changes you've made, or should I leave it the same ? (Seems you've just improved it for larger projects for playback, not necessarily for export ?)

[Noel Borthwick]

You should be able to work with smaller buffer sizes than that. Sonar adaptively scales it only when needed. It should apply for export as well. 

I can run most normal projects at 20ms without any issues. If it needs more it should post a message informing you.

Please report your findings.

[Steve Moddelmog]

On 9/26/2024 at 10:06 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

You should be able to work with smaller buffer sizes than that. Sonar adaptively scales it only when needed. It should apply for export as well. 

I can run most normal projects at 20ms without any issues. If it needs more it should post a message informing you.

Please report your findings.

What would be the advantage of lowering the buffer size rather than just leaving it at 500 msec?

[Noel Borthwick]

Sonar processes audio and MIDI independently and as a result each can be processed at different buffer sizes. 
While it is more efficient to process larger buffers than tiny buffers in general, a larger MIDI buffer size means the engine has to prebuffer more MIDI data when you press play. This translates into a small lag before playback starts and depending on the project size and amount of tracks it can take a second or more. 

Running at a smaller size means there is less work to do before playback starts. Note that unlike audio, running MIDI at a larger buffer size doesn’t mean that “just in time” live MIDI will be delayed. JIT MIDI is always processed immediately and not subject to the MIDI buffer size.

[Steve Moddelmog]

7 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Sonar processes audio and MIDI independently and as a result each can be processed at different buffer sizes. 
While it is more efficient to process larger buffers than tiny buffers in general, a larger MIDI buffer size means the engine has to prebuffer more MIDI data when you press play. This translates into a small lag before playback starts and depending on the project size and amount of tracks it can take a second or more. 

Running at a smaller size means there is less work to do before playback starts. Note that unlike audio, running MIDI at a larger buffer size doesn’t mean that “just in time” live MIDI will be delayed. JIT MIDI is always processed immediately and not subject to the MIDI buffer size.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Scott C. Stahl]

1st "Big" Project opened with .09 Faster, that's for sure. I lowered my Midi buffer from 200 to 50 which helps playback speed a bit.

I'm finding standard saving suddenly seems pretty darn slow. Can't say crazy slow, but it is noticeable, and already is a bit of a pain. However since this is the first project I've tried, I'm not sure how universal this is on my end.

Also since the last update, my GPU must be getting pushed a lot more because screen redraw suddenly is slower...opening up like a curtain from stage left. Mildly entertaining the first few times it happened. Not really a problem for me, but worth noting

[Noel Borthwick]

@Scott C. Stahl you sure that saving is slower in this build? I  can send the last release if you want to compare and report back.

Note that GPU is only used in the piano roll view currently and only if it is enabled in preferences.
If you can send me a video of any drawing issues we can look into it.

 

[Scott C. Stahl]

That would be interesting to compare, thanks!

I don't know how to video my desktop or have any software to do so like camtasia or something. The drawing issue not terribly important at this point to me anyway as it is intermittent and a fairly fast effect. Like a swipe effect in a video from left to right. Just thought I'd report what I've been seeing.

On another note: I tried the ctrl/exit. I then opened the project up later to make some changes and found it did not remember the last project it had open. I had to go to the project file via explorer to open the latest project. Projects do open faster in general and the VST scan is much faster now as well... so very good there!  Thanks!

[Chaps]

47 minutes ago, Scott C. Stahl said:

I don't know how to video my desktop or have any software to do so like camtasia or something.

 

I'm not sure about other versions but Windows 11 has a built in Snipping Tool that can capture the screen in both image and video formats, including sound.

[Scott C. Stahl]

I'm on Win 10. I did use my cell phone cam to catch the save behavior tho. My project takes 40 seconds from the time I click the dialog save button to finish. First, it sits for 5 or 6 seconds, then flashes a "not responding" message for a split second. The progress bar then moves normally after that till the halfway point and stops. It sits at that spot for another 15 seconds or so, then finishes the save. For a total of 40 seconds. As an experiment, I changed the version # of the mix without any actual changes to see how it would do. It zipped through the save without a hitch

[Noel Borthwick]

@Scott C. Stahl I'm not sure what you mean by changing the version number.

[Scott C. Stahl]

38 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Scott C. Stahl I'm not sure what you mean by changing the version number.

I was working on mix 186a. Without changing anything in the project, I did a "save as" 186b. That went quite a bit faster

[Scott C. Stahl]

2 minutes ago, Scott C. Stahl said:

I was working on mix 186a. Without changing anything in the project, I did a "save as" 186b. That went quite a bit faster

When I do a "save as" with changes in the project it goes back to the 40 second routine. Sorry about the confusion. I should have been clearer

Edited October 1, 2024 by Scott C. Stahl

[Martin Schiff]

4 hours ago, Scott C. Stahl said:

When I do a "save as" with changes in the project it goes back to the 40 second routine. Sorry about the confusion. I should have been clearer

Try disabling real time checking in your virus program (if you're using one). I was having the same problem, and that solved it for me.

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Martin Schiff said:

Try disabling real time checking in your virus program (if you're using one). I was having the same problem, and that solved it for me.

It's safer to just exclude your Cakewalk project / content / plugins directories in your AV rather than disable it altogether.

[Robert McClellan]

Am I correct in that I can no longer use Cakewalk unless I pay for it now? I tried the last release and cannot access projects that i am in the middle of finishing for clients without activating. 

[DeeringAmps]

31 minutes ago, Robert McClellan said:

 

Am I correct in that I can no longer use Cakewalk unless I pay for it now?

 

No, unless something has changed in the last couple hours CakeWalk by BandLab remains free. You do have to occasionally login and reactivate it. There  are numerous threads on how to do this if you are experiencing issues.
Sonar is the paid product. 
HTH,

t

[noynekker]

33 minutes ago, Robert McClellan said:

Am I correct in that I can no longer use Cakewalk unless I pay for it now? I tried the last release and cannot access projects that i am in the middle of finishing for clients without activating. 

You can use Cakewalk by BandLab for free still, if you're referring to the new Cakewalk Sonar, yes, it is now a paid version . . . you should be able to finish your projects with the free version, as the files will be backwards compatible . . . do you have Cakewalk by BandLab installed at all ?

[Wookiee]

5 hours ago, Robert McClellan said:

Am I correct in that I can no longer use Cakewalk unless I pay for it now? I tried the last release and cannot access projects that i am in the middle of finishing for clients without activating. 

You can use Cakewalk by Bandlab for free.

However Cakewalk Sonar is a paid,  by subscription, product. 

You need to understand there is now two distinct products.