Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 2 hours ago, Daniel J. Wojcik said: Would you like to look at the dump of an application hang? It's not a show-stopper for me, since I can just kill the process and start anew. I'm not crazy about kernel errors, though. OS Name Microsoft Windows 11 Enterprise Version 10.0.22631 Build 22631 Processor 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-11900K @ 3.50GHz, 3504 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s) Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 128 GB _08242024_111508.dmp 2.88 MB · 0 downloads _08242024_111508.txt 867 B · 1 download What were you doing at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 14 minutes ago, Matthew Simon Fletcher said: What were you doing at the time? Sonar open, at the Start Screen, right-clicked .cwp file and chose "Open With...Cakewalk Sonar from the context menu. It went to the spinny 'wait' Windows symbol and never went beyond it, other than asking if I wanted to wait or end the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Are you talking about the quick start window or using file? Were there any zip files in the directory that the .cwp file was in? I think it's previously been found that this can cause issues and it's a windows bug rather than Cakewalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 33 minutes ago, Matthew Simon Fletcher said: Are you talking about the quick start window or using file? Were there any zip files in the directory that the .cwp file was in? I think it's previously been found that this can cause issues and it's a windows bug rather than Cakewalk. Quick Start. The one that automatically opens when you start Sonar. No zip files. Although the drive itself is compressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Not sure if the compressed drive is directly affecting your current issue, but I think drive/file compression could really hurt performance on a DAW PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) How's the drive compressed exactly? Some algorithms can be not great for performance. I wouldn't have said compressing a whole drive was a good idea these days if it can be avoided. This tool however is one I find quite useful as it uses a lightweight mechanism and ignores files that wouldn't benefit: https://github.com/Freaky/Compactor Maybe if you're unsure or using another one I'd try and uncompress or swap to this as a lower cost impact. How long are you leaving the hang for? Are you unable to load any files? Edited August 24 by Matthew Simon Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Morgan Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I wonder if anyone else is curious like me: what went into the audio engine optimizations? Was this a rewrite of core engine code, compilation changes, library updates, or code optimizations to take advantage of different instruction sets that yielded so much of an improvement? It sounds like a great story, love to hear about what went into such a major improvement. I realize there is IP involved - wondering if there is anything you can share. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Base 57 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 So... With Cakewalk open, you right clicked a file and chose Open With Cakewalk instead of just opening the file? Maybe a second instance of Cakewalk tried to open and caused the hang. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, Peter Morgan said: I wonder if anyone else is curious like me: what went into the audio engine optimizations? Was this a rewrite of core engine code, compilation changes, library updates, or code optimizations to take advantage of different instruction sets that yielded so much of an improvement? It sounds like a great story, love to hear about what went into such a major improvement. I realize there is IP involved - wondering if there is anything you can share. I believe it was a mixture of things - some of which were bug fixes (there was particularly activity that could take up a load of CPU due to threads being blocked), tweaks were made to how VST's were loaded which caused them show a reduction in load (guessing maybe stopping doing a process multiple times and/or caching results) and engine was stopped from running whilst project was still loading. I think there was also some finetuning of the plugin multithreading feature to change the logic of when it applied, which really improved things for low latency users particularly. The biggest impact for me was actually the fix for threads being blocked. I'm with you on loving to know the technical details, so perhaps Noel might share more in due course, if not confidential or super fiddly to explain :) Edit: He already has Edited August 24 by Matthew Simon Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 15 hours ago, Daniel J. Wojcik said: Quick Start. The one that automatically opens when you start Sonar. No zip files. Although the drive itself is compressed. It looks like the hang is somewhere in the OS rather than Sonar. But why are you trying to open with from the browse window in Quick start in the first place? Just open directly from quick start. There is no need to do "open with" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 43 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said: It looks like the hang is somewhere in the OS rather than Sonar. But why are you trying to open with from the browse window in Quick start in the first place? Just open directly from quick start. There is no need to do "open with" It was an older project not in the Quick Start anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 9 hours ago, Base 57 said: So... With Cakewalk open, you right clicked a file and chose Open With Cakewalk instead of just opening the file? Maybe a second instance of Cakewalk tried to open and caused the hang. I still have CbB on the system and haven't gotten around to resetting the default application to use. No second instance. Not going to worry too much about it. I just thought maybe someone could point to a definite answer that Bandlab could use to fix a potential problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 15 hours ago, Matthew Simon Fletcher said: How's the drive compressed exactly? Some algorithms can be not great for performance. I wouldn't have said compressing a whole drive was a good idea these days if it can be avoided. This tool however is one I find quite useful as it uses a lightweight mechanism and ignores files that wouldn't benefit: https://github.com/Freaky/Compactor Maybe if you're unsure or using another one I'd try and uncompress or swap to this as a lower cost impact. How long are you leaving the hang for? Are you unable to load any files? It's the built-in drive compression in Windows. The hang was for 5 minutes or so before I gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel J. Wojcik said: It's the built-in drive compression in Windows. The hang was for 5 minutes or so before I gave up. If it's the W10/11 compression model then that is meant to be high performance, but there is going to be a larger overheard the more files it's doing. Maybe start by uncompressing the Cakewalk / OS directories, given those are what will be in use at the time of the issue. What happens if you navigate to the file and load it via explorer rather than in Cakewalk? Edited August 25 by Matthew Simon Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 7 hours ago, Daniel J. Wojcik said: It was an older project not in the Quick Start anymore. Even so, if you open the file by navigating to the folder from quick start, just click ok and it will open the project. There is no need to right click and choose open as. "Open as" will try and launch sonar as a new process, which isn't needed since you are already browsing for a file in sonar. I also tried following those steps and there was no issue here - it picked the file and returned to the dialog. I suspect your problem is related to shell extensions causing explorer itself to hang rather than something in Sonar. IOW this isn't something fixable in Sonar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel J. Wojcik Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 4 hours ago, Matthew Simon Fletcher said: If it's the W10/11 compression model then that is meant to be high performance, but there is going to be a larger overheard the more files it's doing. Maybe start by uncompressing the Cakewalk / OS directories, given those are what will be in use at the time of the issue. What happens if you navigate to the file and load it via explorer rather than in Cakewalk? I guess I wasn't clear. That's what I was doing. No matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Simon Fletcher Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) So just to be really specific this hang occurs if you either load up Cakewalk and navigate to the project or you're navigating via file explorer and opening the project/Cakewalk that way? I.e. you're not trying to open up the Cakewalk instance more than once? Can you try moving an example project to a different disk drive that isn't compressed? Do you have any extensions/addons to the file explorer? I find that it can be very temperamental in general on W11 unfortunately so try and remove any of these. Edited August 25 by Matthew Simon Fletcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleo Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 I recently downloaded and installed Sonar 2024.08, Build 571. I'm running Windows 10 on my DAW computer, and the installation went smoothly. I opted to have Sonar use the same settings in Preferences that I use in CbB and again everything seems to be working fine so far, but I have encountered a few anomalies. When I click on Documents for offline help in the Help menu, I get a "Failed to Launch Help " message. I've checked " Always use local Help" in Preferences, so is Local Help available in Sonar? Oddly enough I also get this same massage when I click on Keyboard Shortcuts in the Help menu, yet Keyboard Shortcuts is working fine. Second problem: I don't see TH-U or ProChannel Concrete Limiter listed in the Plugin Manager, even after doing several plug-in scans; Sonar can't find them. Can you provide me with a path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 @aleo you probably need to download the documents again, Sonar will have installed in a new directory tree, it may just be a little different. Try a reset and rescan of your plugins. Preferences > VST plugins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleo Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Wookiee, thanks for responding. I tried the Reset and re-scanned all my VST plug ins, but neither TH-U or ProChannel Concrete Limiter appeared. Went to the Cakewalk Products site and was able to find and download TH-U; I probably won't need the Limiter plug-in. I'm a little confused about your advice on solving the problem of no off-line help by downloading Documents(?). Where will I find the Documents file or folder to download for Sonar. I thought it was part of the Sonar program. Please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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