Traffic

[Notes_Norton]

22 hours ago, Grem said:

You can see he has some sort of Pizeo mic hooked up close to the reed. Don't kow if it's on it though.

The one I used had something I called "Stickum", and that was a long time ago. I tried a sax that had a piezo pickup drilled into the neck, and although it was a good make sax, I really didn't like the way the sax responded.

I was playing the same model sax at the time, but it had much better intonation, and a greater variety of tones from subtone to overblown distortion. The varitone sax couldn't be overblown for that nasty sound that works so well in the blues. I don't know if the pickup was to blame or not. The early Mark VI saxes have a reputation for being better, so it could have been just a lame horn.

Like this one https://www.robertoswinds.com/products/vintage-selmer-mark-vi-varitone-tenor-saxophone-w-original-amp-ser-143032-jp

about the pickup   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varitone

 

Notes ♫

[Grem]

4 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

The varitone sax couldn't be overblown for that nasty sound that works so well in the blues.

Yes I understand. Gotta have the response your looking for. Especially that over blown sound that's so soulful! In the video you can hear a few squeals from the sax setup. Not sure it was causing it. Could have been the sax mix/pup getting picked up by a nearby mic. He may have had to set the sax input mic/pup near the edge (max sensitivity) to have enough output for when he blows it soft.

[Notes_Norton]

It was a nice experiment, but now we have something better. Wind MIDI controllers.

(I put the colored vinyl on them)

[craigb]

Purdy!

[Grem]

6 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

It was a nice experiment, but now we have something better. Wind MIDI controllers.

Can you still get the response from these controllers that you can get from a reed?

[mettelus]

I had to think for a second where I saw this... the one video for MIDI Guitar 2 on Jam Origin website, the guy is using a breath controller in many sections and playing outside to boot. I remembered that part of the video because he is using the same wireless I bought on an impulse buy several years ago now (Xvive U2... was $150 back then and roughly $110 now). Those breath controllers can be a bit pricey, but they appear to have a very nice response to them.

 

[Notes_Norton]

17 hours ago, Grem said:

Can you still get the response from these controllers that you can get from a reed?

I use the Yamaha WX5 MIDI controllers. They are no longer in production (sadly), but I have spares, and they are well-built. I bought spare reeds and octave key covers, the only parts that seem to wear out.

The reed doesn't vibrate, but the WX senses how much pressure you apply to it and assigns it to a MIDI Continuous Controller. That allows for natural vibrato, scoops up to pitch, and intentional pitch variations (like playing a tiny bit sharp on a high not to add stress). When coupled with the Yamaha VL70m Physical Modeling synth module, as you change the pitch of the reed on a sax patch, it also changes the timbre, so you get a very natural sounding vibrato, unlike the old LFO. On the trumpet patch, I can trigger lip slurs with it. Depending on your synth module, you use the reed's continuous controller to affect what you want.

The WX also measures how much air you are forcing through it. Again, you can assign the cc to whatever you like. On sax and brass patches, I like it to regulate volume, because as a sax player, it's natural. With the VL module, it also changes the tone with the volume, like many physical instruments do.

There are 4 other continuous controllers that you can assign to whatever the synth can respond to. On the thumb there is a lever, it'll go either up or down (two separate ccs). It's variable with values from 0 to 127. Depending on the synth patch I can use them for wah, distortion, breath noise, flutter-tongue, or whatever. There are two more on/off cc buttons. One is toggle the other on only when depressed. Again, to be assigned to whatever your synth can respond to. I might use them for throat distortion, or vowel change similar to changing mouth shape on the sax.

Here is a very low bitrate (56k mp3) that I posted during the dial-up Internet days (20 or so years ago). The tone is terrible due to the low bitrate, but you can hear the sax expression.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_sunshinesax.mp3

And another for guitar:

https://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_oldtimeguitar.mp3

They were recorded live on a gig, using a pre-iPod, Archos Juke Box near the PA speaker. So the mix is bad, too. I think too close to the woofer and the built in mic. But it was a private party, and I didn't have much time. (BTW, the rhythm section backing tracks were made by me).

I should take the time to do some new recordings, but time is something I don't have a lot of. That's OK, I'm busy doing things I love.

I've played the WX5 through quite q number of different hardware synth modules, and more than a dozen software synths. The software synths all sucked, besides for the latency delay, the voices were just not complex enough. I suppose that's a fact of not having the voices in RAM and having to construct each note. Of the hardware modules, the Physical Modeling as implemented by Yamaha in the VL70m is the only one I'd use for saxophone. It feels more like playing an instrument than triggering samples.

Notes ♫

 

[Grem]

30 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

Here is a very low bitrate (56k mp3) that I posted during the dial-up Internet days (20 or so years ago). The tone is terrible due to the low bitrate, but you can hear the sax expression.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_sunshinesax.mp3

And another for guitar:

https://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_oldtimeguitar.mp3

Great sax solo. And I can hear the expressions your talking about. But the guitar solo, what controller were you using? I am guess the WX? It has that 'sax' quality to it that guitars have been trying to imitate!!

 

So it would seem that the quality of the synth module determines how real it sounds. Because the WX offers so many options, it's up to the player how to use them.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

I used the WX for the guitar solo and a patch that emulates overdrive and sustain, which is what guitarists use to get sax-ish sounding solos.

There are a few things I learned after hearing that solo, the biggest one being the vibrato. It definitely was more sax-like, and what I've learned is (1) unless using a whammy, the vibrato should not go under the pitch, unless bending up from a lower note and (2) the bend is not linear, the more off pitch it goes, the faster, and shriller the tone gets.

Another sax patch done on the same gig with the Archos Juke Box at 56k

https://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_capecodsax.mp3

The pitch bends, dynamics, and articulation effects is what makes it sound sax-like. Even with the lame, tinny 56k mp3, it sounds sax like. Which is why I think tone is not nearly as important as expression when emulating another instrument on a synth.

That was a nice song, but we don't play it anymore. That generation of music lovers have left the stage. We don't play anything much older than The mid 1960s and continue right up to the 2020s. 

 

Notes ♫

 

[Grem]

2 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

tone is not nearly as important as expression when emulating another instrument on a synth.

Yes. No doubt as your example shows. But I thought your tone was good too!! Even over my BS cheap ***** speakers!!

 

2 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

we don't play it anymore

You should. I know you know your crowd, but I can see myself just sitting and enjoying a meal, listening, and swaying my head to the tempo.

[craigb]

Bob's a sax machine! 😁

[Notes_Norton]

21 hours ago, Grem said:

You should. I know you know your crowd, but I can see myself just sitting and enjoying a meal, listening, and swaying my head to the tempo

I watch how the songs go over, and the older ones get mostly ignored these days. Sad, because although I'm happy to see some of them dropped from the current playlist, I miss others.

As a musician, I like nice songs from any era. But you have to play the room. Most people want to hear the music of their lives, not the music of their parents' lives. “Old Cape Cod” was a hit for Patty Page, who was born in 1927. Although it was a late 1950s song, the baby-boomer kids definitely associated it with their parents. 

I can pull out an Elvis Presley song once in a while, anything older than that, it has to be the right place, the right time, and the right audience.

We have over 600 songs in our songlist, so there is always plenty to choose from.  https://www.nortonmusic.com/cats/songlist.html

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

21 hours ago, craigb said:

Bob's a sax machine! 😁

But it's safe sax