One-handed Pianist?

[Sal Sorice]

I'm trained as a classical pianist and mostly have played solo piano pieces over the years (Beethoven, Chopin Liszt, etc.)

In my younger years I worked at songwriting and am now revisiting that in my "golden" years (i.e., I'm getting old :^)

Being a newbie to tracking, mixing, mastering, etc. I've been wondering, as I read/learn about those subjects:

Question:
Would it be wise/weird/recommended to just record mostly right-hand piano parts so they don't fight with/muddy the lower frequencies of the bass, etc.? Or play with both hands and use EQ, etc. to even things out?

I realize that other instruments will occupy the same frequencies as the right-hand piano parts, but it seems like the lower frequencies are more problematic - especially since most of my left-hand parts would involve a lot of octave / root note playing (mostly soft rock, ballads, singer-songwriter genres).

Example: I just recorded/mixed (for the first time) a song I wrote and played the piano intro and solo (midway through the song) with both hands. But in the verse/chorus sections I only played right hand parts.

Opinions and advice welcomed!

[mettelus]

There was a thread years ago discussing similar regarding the frequency collisions on the lower end during live performances (I seem to recall @Bapu and @bitflipper were in on that). One of the punchlines in that was, "We had the piano player sit on his left hand." (to avoid over-driving the bass player).

Due to the tuning and string configuration of a piano, it is a very rich instrument, so your example above is a valid approach to adapt. Definitely a case-by-case basis assessment. Another "trick" commonly employed is using frequency masking (where a signal 1-2dB will tend to dominate) to your advantage. If a part is repetitive, once the listener hears it, they anticipate it, so it is also common to take that part and reduce volume 3-6dB... the listener still "hears" it, but it is deep enough that it removes most of the collision issues. That repetitive part will then often ramp in and out of focus (volume automation) as the song progresses to keep it relevant, yet not dominate each and every song section.

[Sal Sorice]

1 hour ago, mettelus said:

There was a thread years ago discussing similar regarding the frequency collisions on the lower end during live performances (I seem to recall @Bapu and @bitflipper were in on that). One of the punchlines in that was, "We had the piano player sit on his left hand." (to avoid over-driving the bass player).

Due to the tuning and string configuration of a piano, it is a very rich instrument, so your example above is a valid approach to adapt. Definitely a case-by-case basis assessment. Another "trick" commonly employed is using frequency masking (where a signal 1-2dB will tend to dominate) to your advantage. If a part is repetitive, once the listener hears it, they anticipate it, so it is also common to take that part and reduce volume 3-6dB... the listener still "hears" it, but it is deep enough that it removes most of the collision issues. That repetitive part will then often ramp in and out of focus (volume automation) as the song progresses to keep it relevant, yet not dominate each and every song section.

Thanks @mettelus for your feedback. Trying to wrap my head around the whole concept of making the huge range of the piano (and especially the lower end) sit well in a mix. Your observations are very much appreciated.

[bitflipper]

I know it's a personal failing, but I am incapable of playing piano without giving the left hand something to do. If I don't, it'll twitch and often just start playing unbidden. Happens to me all the time onstage - I'll be in the middle of a blazing organ lead and suddenly realize my left hand is trying to butt in.

As you noted, the piano is meant to be a solo instrument. It covers more notes than any other instrument short of a pipe organ, so of course it's going to compete with pretty much everything. Especially if there's a vocal on top of it, in which case you'll have no choice but to carve out a spectral notch for the vocal. 

Some other ideas...

• Keep the left hand parts simple, like just hitting the root note of the chord. That's enough to quell my OCD need to keep the left hand busy. If it's a MIDI recording, I may go into the PRV afterward and simply delete the left hand notes.
• Roll off the low frequencies with EQ, much the same way as you'd do with an acoustic guitar. When recording, I often automate a HPF so that wherever the piano is alone (e.g. an intro) it can have the full spectrum. On stage, I use a fixed HPF that greatly reduces the low end to mitigate conflicts with the bass. 
• Try duplicating the bass part with your left hand. Bass and piano actually blend very nicely in unison. I especially like the piano an octave below the bass, in much the same way as celli and basses are traditionally layered in classical and film scores.
• Give your left hand something else to do that's not playing low piano notes. If you have more than one keyboard, or can split your keyboard, try playing string parts with the left hand. In my band, I do a lot of dual voice stuff, e.g. horns or organ with the left hand, piano with the right. When I'm super caffeinated and feeling frisky, I play shakers with my left hand.

 

 

 

[Sal Sorice]

Thanks @bitflipper!! Great advice. I only play and record at home (so far) but may collaborate with some folks down the road. No live playing anymore for me - haven't done that in 40 years ?

I'll keep your advice in mind as a I work on my next recordings.

[bitflipper]

4 hours ago, Sal Sorice said:

...haven't done that in 40 years...

So you should be rested up and ready for a challenge! 

 

[Sal Sorice]

4 hours ago, bitflipper said:

So you should be rested up and ready for a challenge! 

 

When I get brave enough I'll post some of my music and also see if any members want to lay down some vocals, guitar, bass, drums etc. on some songs. EZDrummer, EZBass, Kontakt, etc. are great for getting ideas down, but they ain't human...

[TheMaartian]

Some interesting and useful information. I have to admit that I thought it was going to be about something else when I saw the thread title. My second piano teacher (from 10-12 years old) was the soloist for the St. Louis Philharmonic. I had 2 hour lessons every Saturday morning at her house. The first hour was spent doing theory on paper, like transposing a piano concerto down a minor third (exactly what every 10 year old wants to be doing on Saturday morning!). The second hour was spent seated at her Steinway concert grand. She was a wonderful person and super skilled pianist, but a brutal teacher. She could tell within 15 minutes how much I'd practiced that week. If I'd slacked off (more than once), I'd get an earful.

Concerning the left hand, think about how a pianist works with a full orchestra. How those pieces are composed and how the instruments support the pianist (for the most part).

Also concerning the left hand, and what I originally thought this thread was going to be about, my teacher suffered a stroke when she was 62, leaving her with a pretty useless right hand. Google "Left Hand Alone piano". Lots of really interesting links.

Here's my teacher, Joanna Lange, playing Left Hand Alone arrangements. She never let her handicap slow her down.

 

 

 

[Sal Sorice]

Thanks @John Maar - she is excellent and must have been magnificent in her peak playing years! I'm familiar with left-hand only piano compositions - I actually played one when I was in college but can't remember the name of the piece.

Your advice is much appreciated. I'm going to just play with both hands on my next song and see how it goes. And, as mentioned by @bitflipper, I can always edit the left-hand midi as needed,

[sjoens]

2 options I've used:

1. Put lower notes on a 2nd track where they can be controlled separately when needed.
     This can be done by recording each track separately or cutting & pasting to another track.

2. Delete lower notes after recording them when they conflict with or duplicate more important instruments.
     (easier when they're on a separate track.)

Or 3. which I haven't tried - if you have split keyboard setting - set each half to a separate track/channel and record it all at once.

There is also a CAL script for moving selected notes to another track, I think.

Edited December 10 by sjoens

[Wei Liang Yap]

If I am doing a multitrack recording, I start first by laying down the piano as a click track, with the overall "feel" of the song.  I use a digital piano, so I have MIDI recorded initially.  Then I add the other parts, and, as necesary I can delete or re-record conflicting parts of the piano.  Although - being a pianist - that is often the prominent instrument in my multitrack recordings anyway.