Starship Krupa Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 It's nice what you can get just by asking. So I asked. The Cakewalk team who read this forum most definitely already know that many people want a perpetual license option for Sonar, and they've stated in word and action that discussions/questions/rants about that subject are no longer welcome. They haven't said it outright, but I suspect that they have done their part to convey the already expressed opinions and are just tired of it because there's nothing else they can do. But if you would like to be able to purchase a perpetual license for Sonar, Next, or both, an actual BandLab/Cakewalk employee has told us how to tell BandLab about it. And that they are "keen to hear more from [their] users." It would be a kindness to the folks who would like to buy perpetual licenses if we could keep it as civil and respectful as possible, whatever positive words of encouragement seem appropriate. 5 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Did my part. Great idea Starship Krupa. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Installed! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-cue Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroverKen Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Done! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) You know that I think you're a wonderful person Starship Krupa, and I think your intentions are good, but after public conversations even asking whether BandLab has made a decision on whether or not to offer a perpetual license have been completely publicly shutdown by BandLab, I can't say that I want to waste my time jumping through a hoop to give more feedback that I seriously doubt is going to be read. These actions don't reflect a brand that respects its customers' input. It isn't something a customer centric brand would do or permit their employees to do on their public forum. I've never interacted with a BandLab employee before the feedback thread Bapu started the other day. The first time I posted something -- and it was succinct and respectful-- it was grouped with other posts a BandLab employee disparaged and made clear our input and voices weren't welcome or respected. BandLab employees just told us the equivalent of STFU, we don't respect your opinion and they did it on the brand's official forum. So clearly they don't believe their CEO would have a problem with seeing customers being treated so disrespectfully and silenced. I don't think the odds are good that somehow these folks would spend even more time reading a bunch of individual messages. It just keeps the feedback private instead of public and on the forum where it clearly annoys at least some of the Cakewalk employees who have the power to censor threads. Edited July 8 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 15 minutes ago, pwal³ said: tbf, i ... wrote some stuff but then deleted it I'm confident it will receive the same degree of attention from BandLab either way based on what's occurred in this forum publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 For only $9 a month BandLab can subscribe me as loyal customer! Or for only $100 a year! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, PavlovsCat said: I'm confident it will receive the same degree of attention from BandLab either way based on what's occurred in this forum publicly. We probably need a poll to find out how many people are actually subscribing. If they are not willing to change I have to imagine it is because people are giving them money even though there is a vocal crowd saying "no subscription". (Of which I fall into said camp). Either they are just waiting until they get enough continual revenue commitment to ope the door for perpetual seats or for the first time in history the Cakewalk team is ignoring the client base all together. They had one of the better licensing programs in the business before in terms of not treating paid customers as criminals. New ownership now, but after all the we have no intention to charge for the DAW talk when they took over, it would be shocking to move to the most hated software model in the industry.... subscriptions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Barnes Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Brian Walton said: We probably need a poll to find out how many people are actually subsckribied Horses for courses, but for me, unless the perpetual licence and subsequent updates are dirt cheap I prefer the subscription model. I am currently subscribed on a monthly basis to see how it works out. I will probably keep the sub running but I don't see me getting a perpetual licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSistine Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Brian Walton said: They had one of the better licensing programs in the business before in terms of not treating paid customers as criminals. Yes, I like X3 authorization! I am not a criminal (and not a Berliner ?), so for me an X3 license type is adequate! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 50 minutes ago, Vernon Barnes said: Horses for courses, but for me, unless the perpetual licence and subsequent updates are dirt cheap I prefer the subscription model. I am currently subscribed on a monthly basis to see how it works out. I will probably keep the sub running but I don't see me getting a perpetual licence. I'd be surprised if anyone wants a premium cost perpetual and updates. Owning it outright like Reaper seems like a customer friendly model. Which costs a lot less than a yearly sub. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, Brian Walton said: We probably need a poll to find out how many people are actually subscribing. Here in Deals or the Coffee House? That might require a “poll” to determine where the “poll” should be, of course that would require a poll to determine if we want/need a poll. I’m getting a headache, just start a poll somewhere… ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) To those who are good with subscriptions, enjoy. But for me, the problem with software subscriptions is that once you stop paying the subscription fee, all of those projects you created can no longer be accessed. I don't think it was in this forum, but someone recently did a great analogy with software subscriptions and physical magazine subscriptions. When you subscribe to a physical magazine (or newspapers), if you stop your subscription, the company doesn't send someone to take any past magazines from you. A perpetual license for a DAW enables you to access the projects for as long as the software works. If Sonar is only available on a subscription, it's simply not for me. The treatment of customers by BandLab employees on this forum is already making it easier to move on. If there was a seamless converter for Cakewalk files to Studio One Pro that was available, I wouldn't even be open to giving it a couple more months. I just dread having so many projects for a DAW I will no longer use and may not be able to access and I also don't enjoy the prospect of having to invest more time to learn another DAW as well as I know Cakewalk/ the old Sonar. Edited July 10 by PavlovsCat I corrected some grammatical errors and my habit of calling Studio One Pro Studio Pro One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said: Here in Deals or the Coffee House? That might require a “poll” to determine where the “poll” should be, of course that would require a poll to determine if we want/need a poll. I’m getting a headache, just start a poll somewhere… ? Not in the deals forum that is for sure. This whole subscription business isn't a deal. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antler Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 13 minutes ago, PavlovsCat said: But for me, the problem with software subscriptions is that once you stop paying all of those projects you created can no longer be accessed. I know of two plugin subscriptions that mitigate that: PA gives you vouchers to 'buy' multiple plugins to keep. There's another company (possibly NI? - someone please correct me if I'm wrong) where the plugins remain openable, but no longer tweakable. And there's Composer Cloud (and by extension of the idea, Musio, et al.), where you can bounce your audio down. It's not the same thing as you can no longer edit the part, but at least the project is still openable/re-mixable. Not the same as a DAW though - I know. Edited July 8 by antler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Screed Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 I leased the SONAR app when it was on sale for $104. I remember Noel saying that "it doesn't get an cheaper than that," so I took that as a hint. I too prefer a perpetual license. I've been using sonar since before dinosaurs walked the earth. I leased the new program for two reasons, one to show a little love to Bandlab for keeping cakewalk going for all these years, and because I wanted to try the new app out. The Bandlab social site does have a learning curve. I am still in the process of getting the ins and outs. It is also a lot of work if you want to see any movement on the site. It encourages participation, but there is a lot of "noise" as in artists that might only have one song posted. I am not sure I see a lot of value in the bandlab social site for me. I have no illusions that my expressions will propel me to stardom or even generate any new "followers." The only "artists" that are following me are the ones that I followed first, except for mr t, tom deering.? Even if you follow someone it doesn't mean they will listen to your efforts. I can say this, there is a LOT of good music to be had there if you take the time to listen. I can easily learn a new DAW if I choose, and I don't really ever collaborate with anyone so no real need for compatibility though Bapu has outlined ways it can be done. I'm that guy that has thousands of projects, but I mix them all down within a day of recording them, and if cakewalk goes poof or I don't want to continue to lease SONAR, I won't cry any tears or bellow any epithets. I do like the new SONAR, but certainly prefer to buy it at my pace and budget. So time will tell for me, I still have 9 months on the lease, but I will let bandlab know my preference, without getting in to all the chin wagging that goes on in various dramatic posts, or did I just do that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 7 hours ago, PavlovsCat said: BandLab employees just told us the equivalent of STFU, we don't respect your opinion and they did it on the brand's official forum. What they said was that they (the Cakewalk staff) were already aware of our preferences in licensing and that discussions of licensing models were no longer welcome on the forum. Then a BandLab employee told us that they are indeed interested in hearing from us and provided a means to do so that doesn't involve the forum. As a veteran of multiple software companies, I have a theory as to what the situation may be. The person(s) at BandLab who calls the shots on this may have a single mandate which is to sell more memberships. Period. Their bonuses and possible promotions are tied to how well they do that. If so, then to them, Sonar and Next are merely further incentives to buy a membership. At worst, in this scenario the sale of perpetual licenses is actually at odds with their mandate, because they don't require signing up for a membership. If my suspicions are correct, then the best we can hope for in the short term is a hybrid plan similar to the Studio One+ hybrid, where a year of subscribing nets you a perpetual license and use of the membership benefits during that time period. That would satisfy the mandate to sell memberships as well as satisfying our desire to own perpetual licenses. As far as the issue of being able to work on existing projects goes, CbB is still free to use, still being bug fixed, and will open Sonar projects just fine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: As far as the issue of being able to work on existing projects goes, CbB is still free to use, still being bug fixed, and will open Sonar projects just fine. The concern is that while CbB is presently available to use and being updated (in the recent past, BandLab stated that the software would no longer have updates by this point) is that BandLab has already announced they will soon no longer update or support it. So it may have all sorts of problems in the future, including activation issues. It's a dead end and something it's best to transition away from. For me, the whole advantage to going to Sonar (and I used the original Sonar since version 1) is that my Cakewalk files would open up in it without issues. Otherwise, if that weren't the case, I'd just move to Studio One Pro. Edited July 8 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 If Notepad adopts a subscription model, I'm done!!! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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