Computer upgrade seems useless

[Cobus Prinsloo]

On 6/23/2024 at 6:18 AM, John Vere said:

You are not in proper ASIO mode. Either that or the Real Tech driver is interfering. You need to remove it in the Reg Edit app. I can tell this because you should not see the Real Tech as an option in the sync and caching. I also don't see the "use ASIO reported Latency" And another thing is you sometimes can have audio issues if you use way to high a buffer setting like you are. 

The first step is to get a good report from Latency Monitor. Get that puppy in the green before you continue. 

Watch this video and report back. https://youtu.be/y5bQhQuZEPQ

Hi John. Thanks  for that video tutorial and your kind help. So, I've  deleted the additioal ASIO drivers from Device Manager and in the registry. It seems, though, that after a PC reboot, the're back again! This time, I went to Windows Remove Program and uninstalled the Realtek app. Do you think I should also emove the Nividia HD AUdio driver (see screen shot)? I'm afraid this may impact my gameplay negatively. 

 

 

[John Vere]

As in the video, those you just disable. No need to un install. 
The only audio drivers that need to be nuked are one that show up in the Sync and Caching and can’t be unselected there.  
The Nivida driver is for your HDMI connection to your monitors speakers if it has them. Mine don’t and even if the did I probably wouldn’t use them. Well I guess they would be a funky way to prove your mixes on a krappy sound system! 

[Cobus Prinsloo]

17 hours ago, John Vere said:

As in the video, those you just disable. No need to un install. 
The only audio drivers that need to be nuked are one that show up in the Sync and Caching and can’t be unselected there.  
The Nivida driver is for your HDMI connection to your monitors speakers if it has them. Mine don’t and even if the did I probably wouldn’t use them. Well I guess they would be a funky way to prove your mixes on a krappy sound system! 

All right -- I'm surely but slowly getting there. Yep, I also don't use my monitor speakers, so I'll get rid of the Nvidia driver. Realtek Audio was the biggest culprit. I uninstalled that one, and now CW's performance is much better (about the same as on my old system, which wasn't too bad). In a few days I'll add more RAM - hopefully, that will also make a difference. I read somewhere that Xeon CPUs aren't great for real-time audio production, which is what my new system (unfortunately) has.

[Cobus Prinsloo]

On 6/23/2024 at 1:48 AM, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

On this system I have now it was the NIC causing clicks and pops. On the system before it was a sensor inside the case , and as soon as I disabled it the issues were gone

 

Hi, you referred to the NIC causing clicks ad pops - what is NIC?

[OutrageProductions]

3 hours ago, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Hi, you referred to the NIC causing clicks ad pops - what is NIC?

Network Interface Controller; your wifi or ethernet chipset.

[DeeringAmps]

Forgive me for not paying close attention here. BUT, it’s a Dell. Not, IMHO, a “top candidate” for a DAW. However there is a forum member, @Jack Stonerwho is active on the Dell support forum. Perhaps Jack will drop by and give some advice. Looks like he hasn’t posted in quite some time, but according to his profile he stopped by on Monday. ?, how ‘bout it FireBerd? Can you help our man out?

t

Edited July 3 by DeeringAmps

[Glenn Stanton]

On 6/28/2024 at 7:39 PM, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Realtek Audio was the biggest culprit. I uninstalled that one

don't uninstall it, disable in your device manager. otherwise it will reinstall itself. RealTek drivers can be like a, erm, certain kind of painful itch that doesn't go away just because the redness disappears. just sayin' for a friend... ahem,

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

19 hours ago, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Hi, you referred to the NIC causing clicks ad pops - what is NIC?

Network Interface Card

[Starship Krupa]

On 6/28/2024 at 5:39 PM, Cobus Prinsloo said:

now CW's performance is much better (about the same as on my old system, which wasn't too bad)

To be honest, I wouldn't have expected a huge improvement in performance relative to your old system. At some point in specifications, perceptible performance isn't going to improve by that much for DAW use.

The new system improves upon the memory speed and graphics, which are two areas that will yield better perceived performance, so you're covered there.

You haven't mentioned exactly what performance improvement(s) you were expecting. We assume around here that people are striving for ever-lower latency, but that, too is at some point constrained by USB or Firewire technology.

Latency, screen drawing, what is it that you are seeking? What kind of projects do you commonly do? Orchestral pieces involving sample libraries? Audio with many FX? Electronic with many soft synths? Scoring to video?

The resources that those different types of project depend on are....different. Sample libraries like a lot of fast RAM and fast disk for loading. DDR5 and NVme. Audio with FX and electronic likes faster processors with more cores. Scoring to video wants a good video card.

As far as I can tell, your system has all of those things. It's a Dell, so it's well-integrated. The only issues I've ever run into with my Dell towers were due to manufacturers' drivers not working as well as the (older) drivers supplied by Dell. The Audiobox 96 is a time-tested and currently-supported interface.

One thing to check that people sometimes neglect is the possibility that a cable has gone bad. When I purchased my (used) PreSonus Studio 2|4, it came with a USB A to USB C cable. It had crappy performance until I tried a new cable.

[Cobus Prinsloo]

On 6/28/2024 at 4:36 PM, John Vere said:

As in the video, those you just disable. No need to un install. 
The only audio drivers that need to be nuked are one that show up in the Sync and Caching and can’t be unselected there.  
The Nivida driver is for your HDMI connection to your monitors speakers if it has them. Mine don’t and even if the did I probably wouldn’t use them. Well I guess they would be a funky way to prove your mixes on a krappy sound system! 

What kind of system do you use, i.e. CPU type, SSD etc?

[Cobus Prinsloo]

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

To be honest, I wouldn't have expected a huge improvement in performance relative to your old system. At some point in specifications, perceptible performance isn't going to improve by that much for DAW use.

The new system improves upon the memory speed and graphics, which are two areas that will yield better perceived performance, so you're covered there.

You haven't mentioned exactly what performance improvement(s) you were expecting. We assume around here that people are striving for ever-lower latency, but that, too is at some point constrained by USB or Firewire technology.

Latency, screen drawing, what is it that you are seeking? What kind of projects do you commonly do? Orchestral pieces involving sample libraries? Audio with many FX? Electronic with many soft synths? Scoring to video?

The resources that those different types of project depend on are....different. Sample libraries like a lot of fast RAM and fast disk for loading. DDR5 and NVme. Audio with FX and electronic likes faster processors with more cores. Scoring to video wants a good video card.

As far as I can tell, your system has all of those things. It's a Dell, so it's well-integrated. The only issues I've ever run into with my Dell towers were due to manufacturers' drivers not working as well as the (older) drivers supplied by Dell. The Audiobox 96 is a time-tested and currently-supported interface.

One thing to check that people sometimes neglect is the possibility that a cable has gone bad. When I purchased my (used) PreSonus Studio 2|4, it came with a USB A to USB C cable. It had crappy performance until I tried a new cable.

This is an eye-opener to me, thanks. The problem is clicks and pops during playback.

I use mainly Electronic with many soft synths. USB 3. 
23x Soft Synths (many are instances of the same ones). Minus all instances, and that leaves 10 soft synths.
21x Tracks

[57Gregy]

14 hours ago, Cobus Prinsloo said:

The problem is clicks and pops during playback.

I use mainly Electronic with many soft synths. USB 3. 
23x Soft Synths (many are instances of the same ones). Minus all instances, and that leaves 10 soft synths.
21x Tracks

Jeez Louise, bounce and freeze.

[Cobus Prinsloo]

On 6/22/2024 at 12:06 AM, John Vere said:

Look in the box I show below and make sure this matches the same wording as in the Drivers settings tab Playback and recording timing master

Hi John, can you please upload that screenshot? It seems to be broken,

[azslow3]

If you really want optimize audio performance, and not "I will click here-and-there may be it helps...", you need to understand what is the bottleneck (for concrete system, with concrete project).

For "clicking everywhere" approach, I have old but for most staff still valid "checklist": https://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,395.0.html

To understand what is the problem, search "Performance monitor" in my checklist. Once you know what you want/need improve/fix, you significantly increase your chances be successful.

[Cobus Prinsloo]

14 hours ago, azslow3 said:

For "clicking everywhere" approach, I have old but for most staff still valid "checklist":

Than you, this has made a huge difference . Your recommendation to use Throttlestop, greatly ipacted performance (I just hope my PC doesn't bomb from overheating CPU's)

[Terry Kelley]

I’ve used plugins whose CPU usage escapes the System/App performance meter. And not just on Cakewalk.  Usage is really low and its crackling like crazy. I’ve tweaked ‘till the cows came home to no avail. But these plugins problem's are known to many users. Freeze and move on. 

Edited August 14 by Terry Kelley

[azslow3]

10 hours ago, Cobus Prinsloo said:

Than you, this has made a huge difference . Your recommendation to use Throttlestop, greatly ipacted performance (I just hope my PC doesn't bomb from overheating CPU's)

Xeons are server processors, they are designed to work at 100% continuously (assuming cooling system match it, and in ready-to-use towers it usually is).

But if Throttlestop significantly improve something, check your Powerplan is correct (also listed). I personally prefer avoid Throttlestop and other "hardcore" tweaks, but it is one of good tools to see what is going on (even so it is not easy to interpret). Till you target latency toward 1-2 ms... not possible with your interface in any case... standard bios settings and Ultimate Powerplan should allow use your system reasonably. So, I repeat, check which bottleneck you hit and them target the reason.

You know, an attempt to drive 2x faster can bring you to the destination 2x faster. But that is not the first thing to consider in case you have chosen  10x longer road 😏

[azslow3]

Written million times, but in short: you may have 2 DIFFERENT general problems (one, another or both...):

1. audio interface need "the next buffer" at the time it starts convert its samples into analog signal. The time is fixed. Absolute "deadline". No matter what is in the buffer, it should be there. Failing so produce cracks/pops and (bad) driver crash, up to interface (hardware) stuck. Any 10MHz DSP beats most "speedy" and powerful PC in that respect. The "power" does not really matter (except my 2x faster driving example... so can have "improving" effect). Reasons of failure there: system (hardware and related software) own "latency", they can simply "lock" the resources and so not allow delivering "in time"; badly written drivers, which fail to deliver even when the system allows.
2. the buffer doesn't get the information you want. I mean it can't be filled with results from all your synths and effects when it has to be sent to the interface. Here the DAW, plug-ins, RAM, disk, so general "power" is required. Since "too long" processing in any plug-in will reduce the "speed". The reasons from (1) also influence (2), the processing can be "too long" just because CPU/memory/disk required for it was just locked by something else. But everything else is also relevant.

Note that "CPU load" is not an indication you have/don't have these problems. Except when everything is at 100%, you know your system is definitively "underpowered". With good optimized system (and well written plug-ins... rarely the case...) you may have no problems at 90% or more, but on bad system you may experience problems with 10% (or even less).

Cakewalk and all mentioned utilities don't really show you what the problem is. Latency Monitors are great to understand from where SOME problems MAY come, only sometimes they demonstrate from where the problem definitively come. So the only way to be sure is with your concrete project observe what is going on with real-time buffers (1) and what is going on with processing (2). And there is a way to see that, as I have pointed in my first post...

[Terry Kelley]

And beer.

[Cobus Prinsloo]

15 hours ago, azslow3 said:

Till you target latency toward 1-2 ms... not possible with your interface in any case...

Thank you for these very helpful tips,. You mentioned above the target latency is not possible on my interface -- are you referring to my audio interface (Presonus Audiobox 98)? If so, I can get a Scarlett 5i5 2nd gen for an excellent price. Would this one be better?