Mad Musicologist Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hi all, I'm puzzled again, trying to find what I am doing wrong for hours now. Using BFD Drums, I have routed inside BFD one mono out channel for the snare. I have the channel, called BFD_Snare in CbD, and when the snare is playing, I see there is activity. Now for mixing with some Fx, I routed the BFD_Snare channel to a stereo bus which I called BFD Snare. this bus is being routed to a new bus I alled BFD_Master (I intend to get a smooth drum mix which I then route to the bus "Master Preview" where I can set some mastering fx before this bus goes to the last channel "Master" in which I only control that there is no clipping . Thought that was a nice plan, but I keep having trouble getting any signal into the bus BFD Snare. I do not see anything coming in there, and (of course) I do not hear anything. I checked all the routings again and again, and when I changed the BFD_Snare out routing to BFD_Master, I could hear my snare playing, when I changed back to the setting BFD_Snare out to BFD Snare there is silence again. And I can't find why the setting doesn't work. Help, please... Thankx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChernobylStudios Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hey there, Could you show several screenshots of your routing? BFD --> Snare --> Snare --> Master. etc. I'm not immediately sure why it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagBass Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mad Musicologist said: I do not see anything coming in there, and (of course) I do not hear anything. I checked all the routings again and again, and when I changed the BFD_Snare out routing to BFD_Master, I could hear my snare playing, when I changed back to the setting BFD_Snare out to BFD Snare there is silence again. And I can't find why the setting doesn't work. I'm sure this doesn't help you, but I followed your routing and it's working fine here. Audio out at every step. If you could collapse the ProChannels and show the Channel Inputs and Outputs (and maybe make all console strips narrow), we might get a better picture of what you've got going on. Edited October 27, 2019 by MagBass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 hour ago, ChernobylStudios said: Hey there, Could you show several screenshots of your routing? BFD --> Snare --> Snare --> Master. etc. I'm not immediately sure why it's not working. Thankx for following up. Here my BFD screenshot re. internal routing. The other screenshot comes in the following reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, MagBass said: I'm sure this doesn't help you, but I followed your routing and it's working fine here. Audio out at every step. If you could collapse the ProChannels and show the Channel Inputs and Outputs (and maybe make all console strips narrow), we might get a better picture of what you've got going on. Thankx, MagBass, for following up. In my previous post you see the channel routing inside BFD. Here comes the narrowed Cakewalk channeling screenshot: Is it possible that Cakewalk dislikes me giving the bus name too similar to the source channel (BFD_snare vs. BFD Snare)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChernobylStudios Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 What are you sending here? These are FX sends, and what I see is you may be trying to use them as sends to busses. The only routing you need to do is below in the channel strip where it says "Output", where you already have everything correctly routed. I would disable these and see what happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Borthwick Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Bus names are not important. I see that you have some buses and tracks soloed. If you unsolo everything does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagBass Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mad Musicologist said: Is it possible that Cakewalk dislikes me giving the bus name too similar to the source channel (BFD_snare vs. BFD Snare)? As Noel said, that doesn't matter at all. I forgot to note that I was not able to get any output when I assigned the BFD snare to a mono internal output, no matter how I tried to pick it up. I had to send the snare to a stereo output in BFD, then CbB would pick it up. I changed the interleave on the CbB console track to mono. In the shot below, the snare is soloed in BFD so I could make sure I was only seeing the snare activity: I think Chernobyl is on to something with those sends... Edited October 27, 2019 by MagBass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said: Bus names are not important. I see that you have some buses and tracks soloed. If you unsolo everything does it work? Thanks, Noel, When I have unsoloed everything in this project, I do hear the snare very faintly, I can see levels, but when changing the volume of the track that doesn't change the loudness. But I shall see the other comments first now and check them out. At least I know that I do not have to change the bus name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 19 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said: What are you sending here? These are FX sends, and what I see is you may be trying to use them as sends to busses. The only routing you need to do is below in the channel strip where it says "Output", where you already have everything correctly routed. I would disable these and see what happens. Sorry for asking back. You mean I should have the Fx only in the busses, and not in the tracks? What exactly do you mean when saying, "I would disable these..." I intend to have some Fx exclusively for one track, and others in the busses, affecting the sounds of more instruments (tracks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, MagBass said: As Noel said, that doesn't matter at all. I forgot to note that I was not able to get any output when I assigned the BFD snare to a mono internal output, no matter how I tried to pick it up. I had to send the snare to a stereo output in BFD, then CbB would pick it up. I changed the interleave on the CbB console track to mono. In the shot below, the snare is soloed in BFD so I could make sure I was only seeing the snare activity: I think Chernobyl is on to something with those sends... Thankx again, Mag Bass, I shall try now what you suggest: All the other stuff made problems worse. The drums are almost completely faded away, and if I solo for example the snare, I still hear the hihat, the kick... Something is really screwed up here. So I'll check now the thing with the stereo out in BFD. _ _ _ _ No, that doesn't change anything. Only when I rout all the drum channels stright to "Master", I get them right. But then I can't Fx them anymore. Edited October 28, 2019 by Mad Musicologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIBI Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mad Musicologist said: 21 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said: What are you sending here? These are FX sends, and what I see is you may be trying to use them as sends to busses. The only routing you need to do is below in the channel strip where it says "Output", where you already have everything correctly routed. I would disable these and see what happens. Sorry for asking back. You mean I should have the Fx only in the busses, and not in the tracks? What exactly do you mean when saying, "I would disable these..." I intend to have some Fx exclusively for one track, and others in the busses, affecting the sounds of more instruments (tracks). I don't think that following three SENDs are needed as @ChernobylStudios said. SENDs on Track 17 - BFD_Snare (to BFD Snare bus) SENDs on Track 23 - Z3TA+2_64 1 (to BassBus) SENDs on Bus C - BFD Snare (to BFD Master bus F) These are correctly routed in In/Out module already. So if you are also using SENDs is like double routing to same bus. Edited October 28, 2019 by HIBI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, HIBI said: I don't think that following three SENDs are needed as @ChernobylStudios said. SENDs on Track 17 - BFD_Snare (to BFD Snare bus) SENDs on Track 23 - Z3TA+2_64 1 (to BassBus) SENDs on Bus C - BFD Snare (to BFD Master bus F) These are correctly routed in In/Out module already. So if you are also using SENDs is like double routing to same bus. Thanks, Hibi, but that doesn't change much. The only way I get to hear the snare is when I route channel 17 to "Master". But doing so, I always also hear faintly the kicks, and the cymbals. Here's my newest setup-screenshot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIBI Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mad Musicologist said: Here's my newest setup-screenshot: According to ProChannel EQ in the Track Inspector, seems it's getting signal. If disabling plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C, you can hear snare sound? FX Chain maybe contain a plugin which is in the way the signal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 hours ago, HIBI said: According to ProChannel EQ in the Track Inspector, seems it's getting signal. If disabling plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C, you can hear snare sound? FX Chain maybe contain a plugin which is in the way the signal? Now it's getting signal, but I still hear all very faintly, also the kicks and cymbals, although I have only the snare soloed. Disabeling plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C does not change anything really. I checked every plugin in the rows. Next evening I will check if there is something inside BFD going wrong, although I am re-checking that with every effort I start. Maybe I should even reload the affected kit parts. Thankx, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChernobylStudios Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Mad Musicologist said: Now it's getting signal, but I still hear all very faintly, also the kicks and cymbals, although I have only the snare soloed. Disabeling plugins on "out BFD Snare" bus C does not change anything really. I checked every plugin in the rows. Next evening I will check if there is something inside BFD going wrong, although I am re-checking that with every effort I start. Maybe I should even reload the affected kit parts. Thankx, though... That sounds like normal drum bleed... is there an option in the instrument plugin itself to disable bleed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIBI Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Yes, BFD has bleed option. Check "Bleed section" out on BFD3 Operation Manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Notice the Bleed section in the right-most column of the BFD3 UI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Musicologist Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said: That sounds like normal drum bleed... is there an option in the instrument plugin itself to disable bleed? Well what wil happen if I disable bleed? I have been looking up for threads that also deal with BFD3 and Sonar and found this one: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Export-BFD3-to-separate-tracks-sounds-fuzzy-m3550010.aspx and in the same source, another one entitled BFD3 - separate track outputs. I still have to work through them... For me it's clear that the mistake in the setup is mine, but I have to find it. I'll keep you informed here, for further users encountering the same issue. _ _ _ _ Some hours later: I'm not sure anymore that the issue is inside BFD. But I think it must be in Cakewalks routing. Whatever I try inside BFD about changing channels, it does not change the BFD output. Even disabeling bleed: I solo the snare track, and hear the snares at very low level, together with some cymbals and the kick. Useless trying tonight, I am dead tired, and all the fruitless efforts discourage me. I feel like dumping the entire project and never use that setup again. Sorry.... Edited October 29, 2019 by Mad Musicologist new (non-) results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChernobylStudios Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I don't have BFD3 so I can't do it myself to test. But I would, before anything else, to double check the routing. You've set up a really complicated routing system, so let's go back to Step 1. And then let's go through this checklist: When you create a multiple-output routing of BFD3 to Sonar, do all of the instruments work? If all of the instruments play through separate channels with an initial multi-out, if you solo the snare, does it play? If no, something is wrong with the output routing settings. If yes, Does drum kit bleed sound through the solo'd snare track? Disable bleed in the BFD3 instrument if you'd like. Create Snare Bus. Route BFD3 Snare to Snare Bus. Solo bus - do you hear the same exact audio that you did with initial routing? Create Drum Submix bus. Route drum channels to drum submix bus. I also wouldn't bother "thinking ahead" and creating FX Sends for reverbs or anything right now, first thing is to ensure the instrument loads and works properly with the routing system. Try that and let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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