Any tips for mixing with headphones?

[T Boog]

Thanks for all the great advice guys. My biggest concern right now is just not hurting my ears again. I think, as Duncan mentioned, I mainly need to retrain myself to mixing at lower volume. And def taking more breaks.

 Btw, a few of u mentioned the dBs u mix at. I assume yall were referring to the monitor spkr level. I read online that u could also test the dBs of headphones by using a dB meter phone app and placing the mic of the phone inside the cup of the headphones. I'm sure it wont be the most accurate but maybe it'll give me a rough idea.

I havent tried it yet cause Im still resting my ears but it'd be awesome to know what dBs I'm mixing at.

Also, as much as I'd love a pair of modeling headphones, I'm just a poor guy. Eventually I'll try to get something with spkr modeling. For now, I see myself doing it the old school way and trying it on diff systems until I learn my headphones.

If that doesn't work out, I'm just gonna email Bob Clearmountain and see if he does charity mixing for the financially challenged. (Hey, it might work 😉)

[msmcleod]

On 6/11/2024 at 8:37 AM, T Boog said:

...

Also, as much as I'd love a pair of modeling headphones, I'm just a poor guy. Eventually I'll try to get something with spkr modeling. For now, I see myself doing it the old school way and trying it on diff systems until I learn my headphones.
...

Check out HoRNet VHS - it's only €10.99 ( ~ $12 US ).  It supports over 280 models of headphones.

[T Boog]

29 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Check out HoRNet VHS - it's only €10.99 ( ~ $12 US ).  It supports over 280 models of headphones.

Wow, Thanks bud! I've already started looking up reviews on it. Have u tried it out urself or heard any good feedback on it?

[msmcleod]

Just now, T Boog said:

Wow, Thanks bud! I've already started looking up reviews on it. Have u tried it out urself or heard any good feedback on it?

I've got it, but haven't really used it much.  Seems to do what it says on the tin.

[T Boog]

40 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

I've got it, but haven't really used it much.  Seems to do what it says on the tin

Forgive my ignorance but what if my current headphones are not supported? Is it something where I can tweak it to match my headphones or is having one of the supported headphones a must-have for it to work properly.

[Glenn Stanton]

if you've been doing anything with room measurement software (e.g. REW or ARC etc) you might be able to use REW to measure your headphone response and create a usable EQ curve to flatten it (something akin to what the soundid reference product does (and which i believe has a lot more supported headphones etc).

Edited June 12 by Glenn Stanton

[msmcleod]

2 hours ago, T Boog said:

Forgive my ignorance but what if my current headphones are not supported? Is it something where I can tweak it to match my headphones or is having one of the supported headphones a must-have for it to work properly.

You don't have to use the headphone correction - you can enable the room simulation on its own. The adjusted frequency response won't be 100%, but it will give you the room imaging/cross talk etc.

Alternatively you could download (or measure) the frequency response of your current headphones and chose a headphone model with the most similar frequency response.

Lastly, you could try contacting HorNET so see if they'd include your headphones in their model list.

[Mr No Name]

what you need to do is get a monitor control room volume box (a volume knob)  set it to the correct volume, then never touch it , mark it with a permanent marker or put tape on it.

I have a pair of computer speakers with a volume knob on one of them, they have a strange quirk where the headphone amp bypasses the volume knob and they even work on headphone when switched off.  the volume is unchangeable. 

Very useful for "perspective".

 

[Will.]

On 6/8/2024 at 7:56 PM, T Boog said:

Hi. Ive been a musician for decades but I'm pretty new to mixing. My biggest issue is mixing at lower volume levels. The music just sounds better turned up a decent bit. However, the other night I overdid it to the point where my ears were ringing. I've since downloaded a break reminder app to remind me to take more breaks.

Btw, I do have  Rockit 5 monitors but my room is not treated and I have to watch to not disturb my neighbors.

I know some pro mixers mix with cans so I'm just fishing for any advice that might help me get good mixes without hurting my ears.

One lesson I'm learning is that lots of compression on the low end will punch the crap out of ur eardrums. Man, my ears are still sore 😖

The only tip is: If it works for you - it works for you.  

Edited June 14 by Will.

[T Boog]

14 minutes ago, Will. said:

The only tip is: If it works for you - it works for for.  

Yeah, Im kinda learning that. Esp since there's a lot of conflicting advice on the web. However, I do consider all advice. Every now & again a certain tip will hit home for me and I run with it.

I've actually learned a lot from this thread. You guys showered me with info which I'm still researching on. So yeah, much thanks to u guys. Cheers Will 🍻

 

 

[Will.]

1 hour ago, T Boog said:

Yeah, Im kinda learning that.

The reason why "I" said so - I have tried numerous attempts to mix with headphones and always end up with not-so-great results (and I know all my headphones in and out.) I've tried to use Realphones, NX Oceans and Sienna Room. It just doesn't work for my ears, and I still have young ears. There are guys that mix chart topping tracks on headphones, it works for them better than monitor speakers.  So, I really hope it works for you too. Cheers mate.

Edited June 14 by Will.

[RexRed]

On 6/14/2024 at 2:22 PM, Will. said:

The reason why "I" said so - I have tried numerous attempts to mix with headphones and always end up with not-so-great results (and I know all my headphones in and out.) I've tried to use Realphones, NX Oceans and Sienna Room. It just doesn't work for my ears, and I still have young ears. There are guys that mix chart topping tracks on headphones, it works for them better than monitor speakers.  So, I really hope it works for you too. Cheers mate.

The idea is to mix with headphones (earbuds in my case) and then continue the same mix with open air monitors.

Both approaches are necessary and vital for a good mix.

The headphones let you hear subtle variations of instruments, the amount of reverb and the glue of your mix.

Where open air monitors help you to set the vocal into the mix.

Without both approaches, elements of the mix will be left raw and unedited.

I know it is a difficult transition to switch from headphones (earbuds) to open air monitors or to switch from open air monitors to headphones. Your ears need to adjust and acclimatize to the new listening experience, but this switch is necessary for every single song. 

You can start the mix with open air monitors and then fix the final mix with headphones, then give one final listen in open air monitors.

Or mix with headphones and give a final listen in open air monitors. I try to never release a song without spending time in both listening environments.

Every time I need to switch listening environments my own sense is to resist the change. But experience has taught me to do it anyway, Just trudge on through. Because I have left mixes raw when I have not given both monitoring experiences their required time.

If i do not listen in my open air monitors someone  in the forums will say, my vocal is too hot.

If I do not listen in my earbuds and listen only in my open air monitors I will one day listen to my song in earbuds and be, horrified. 😄

[RexRed]

On 6/12/2024 at 4:40 PM, msmcleod said:

You don't have to use the headphone correction - you can enable the room simulation on its own. The adjusted frequency response won't be 100%, but it will give you the room imaging/cross talk etc.

Alternatively you could download (or measure) the frequency response of your current headphones and chose a headphone model with the most similar frequency response.

Lastly, you could try contacting HorNET so see if they'd include your headphones in their model list.

I made the mistake of buying the Sonarworks SoundID Reference software and the microphone.

I found out it only works with 44khz. This is not acceptable to me.

So it all gets put in the same junk drawer as a hundred other things I  thought I needed to have and found out I didn't.

I think the native way headphones are set, the finale mix only benefits from this rough curve anyway.

I have put the balancing correction on my headphones and found that my old mixes I made without using the software sound fine anyway. 

Edited June 16 by RexRed

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, RexRed said:

I made the mistake of buying the Sonarworks SoundID Reference software and the microphone.

I found out it only works with 44khz. This is not acceptable to me.

So it all gets put in the same junk drawer as a hundred other things I  thought I needed to have and found out I didn't.

I think the native way headphones are set, the finale mix only benefits from this rough curve anyway.

I have put the balancing correction on my headphones and found that my old mixes I made without using the software sound fine anyway. 

That's strange... I don't recall any sample rate restrictions for Sonarworks.  I've got the headphone release only, so there was no measurements involved.

I've got ARC 2, though which has a 48Khz restriction for measurement setup only, but after the measurement was taken you could use any sample rate you wanted.

 

[T Boog]

51 minutes ago, RexRed said:

So it all gets put in the same junk drawer

Yeah, I watched a bunch of youtube reviews on the diff brands of studio/speaker modeling and even in the positive reviews, no one seemed very psyched about it. It was mostly underwhelming reactions.

For now I think Im just gonna stick with my cans and see how my mixes translate. At the least, it's a good learning experience for me. Cheers!

 

 

[Will.]

2 hours ago, RexRed said:

Both approaches are necessary and vital for a good mix

Perhaps with your mixes in your room? Yes. Thats your preferred method of achieving the final product and if it works for you . . .hey, by all means. 

My mixing room and monitors let me achieve the same results every time from the first tweak I do. There is NO right or wrong way to mix. There are kids out here that creates polished mixes with their laptop in untreated rooms with standing waveforms cloaking them. It is what you're used to. Again: there is NO right or wrong way to mix. I can't mix with headphones - period.

[RexRed]

1 hour ago, Will. said:

Perhaps with your mixes in your room? Yes. Thats your preferred method of achieving the final product and if it works for you . . .hey, by all means. 

My mixing room and monitors let me achieve the same results every time from the first tweak I do. There is NO right or wrong way to mix. There are kids out here that creates polished mixes with their laptop in untreated rooms with standing waveforms cloaking them. It is what you're used to. Again: there is NO right or wrong way to mix. I can't mix with headphones - period.

There are kids out there that create mixes on laptops and then there are people like me who started creating mixes in Cakewalk for MSDOS 36 years ago.

It takes ear training to mix in headphones.

Edited June 16 by RexRed

[RexRed]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

That's strange... I don't recall any sample rate restrictions for Sonarworks.  I've got the headphone release only, so there was no measurements involved.

I've got ARC 2, though which has a 48Khz restriction for measurement setup only, but after the measurement was taken you could use any sample rate you wanted.

 

Maybe I interpreted that wrong but I also record with 32 bit in Cakewalk. It seemed to take over my system too much and I use 2 interfaces, my FireFace UCX  II for Windows and my Zoom 32 for Cakewalk.  I have Sonarworks disabled in the Device Manager because reinstalling it was quite laborious.

[pwal³]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:56 PM, msmcleod said:

Check out HoRNet VHS - it's only €10.99 ( ~ $12 US ).  It supports over 280 models of headphones.

currently 85% off until midnight italian time today, so about one shiny euro, use code HVHS90