Does Music Theory REALLY Kill Creativity?

[bitman]

I can't read music.

I was taught drum notes so I am familiar with whole, half, quarters etc. Once the notes went up and down the staff, that was too much for my ***** brain on the fly, so I just free styled guitar like so, so many, and learned by ear all the contemporary cool stuff of the day being placed as the lead gutar player ( not an ist) and song writer in local garge bands. Later in life, when I get around trained people they displayed competency that exceeds mind but have seemingly never written a catchy stupid 3 minute pop raidio tune  to save theire lives. They raise up the circle of 5th like it's a boy scout badge of yor but all the while I covet their understanding, and they wonder at my playing because it sounds so..... and I think. Shoot people, you should get out more. There are bazillion sof us.

I was a youngest of five and had two older sisters that could play anything on the piano Chopin to Elton but only if the song book was before them. Take that away and you remove a decade of practice, just like that. But see Elton sis? 

I don't know. both camps can be rather smug. Likely as a defence mechanism.

Edited December 8 by bitman

[Notes_Norton]

It's like saying, “Does learning grammar kill writing creativity?”

It is my firm belief, if a creative person can make great music, learning music theory would only help by having another virtual tool in his/her kit.

I think you can make fine music without it - but -  IF, and I mean IF you have the talent. But without theory, what you create is limited.  You could write a great rock song, but the chances that you will compose a great symphony without knowing music theory are slim to none. 

Knowing music theory did not hurt Shatkovitch, Dvorak, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, or Saint-Saëns any.

 

Notes ♫

[pwallie]

just try, that's what most popular artists did (admittedly with mixed results) - leave it to someone else to tell you how it fits the rules or not

[paulo]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

Knowing music theory did not hurt Shatkovitch

Was he any relation to that famous Russian composer?

[craigb]

I'm still trying to work out the chord progressions in John Cage's 4'33"...

[Terry Kelley]

It's important after any music training to doodle. Don't try and apply theory, just doodle. Make stuff up. Wander around the keyboard. Hum along.  I think that helps keep the creativity flowing and you can use the theory to solve problems, not write a song.

I have a habit of boxing myself into a corner with chord and key changes and what little theory I know helps me get my ***** out and back to the main theme.

As mentioned above, someone I know really well is top notch in theory and sight reading. But playing to even a metronome is nearly impossible because that unnamed person wants to constantly stop and replay any bad notes.

If you do have a chance to play with others, take it. That goes a long way.

Edited December 9 by Terry Kelley

[Notes_Norton]

22 hours ago, paulo said:

Was he any relation to that famous Russian composer?

Yes, it was his name in the Cyrillic alphabet, but translated by AI

BTW, My secret identity is “Typoman - writing all wrongs”

 

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

The thing about theory is this. You learn it and it becomes subconscious, just like the grammar you learned in school.

If you have the talent, the theory will color what you are doing without you even thinking about it most of the time.

If you don't have the talent, no matter what you do, theory or not, it's not going to be great.

[Terry Kelley]

55 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

Yes, it was his name in the Cyrillic alphabet, but translated by AI

BTW, My secret identity is “Typoman - writing all wrongs”

 

 

Notes ♫

I just read mine and it sounds like  I never learned English. Fixed hopefully.

[bats brew]

the ONLY time i've felt stiffled, 

while working on music with other musicians,

is when i come across a situation where something needs to change,

but i cannot converse with the other musician because of their LACK of understanding of theory.

boom, brick wall.

creativity stops.

[pwallie]

16 hours ago, bats brew said:

the ONLY time i've felt stiffled, 

while working on music with other musicians,

is when i come across a situation where something needs to change,

but i cannot converse with the other musician because of their LACK of understanding of theory.

boom, brick wall.

creativity stops.

can't you try and describe what you want without using theory language that the others don't understand? ("make the guitar sound more like an iceberg" etc etc) - because what you're saying is that music theory does stop creativity

[craigb]

1 hour ago, pwallie said:

can't you try and describe what you want without using theory language that the others don't understand? ("make the guitar sound more like an iceberg" etc etc) - because what you're saying is that music theory does stop creativity

I once heard (singer to drummer) "Can you make that 'pea soup' sound with your high-hats?"

[pwallie]

eno innit

[Notes_Norton]

21 hours ago, bats brew said:

i cannot converse with the other musician because of their LACK of understanding of theory

It's difficult.

It's the common language between musicians. 

I've been in bands where drummers, guitarists, and even vocalists knew at least basic music theory, and it's a lot easier to communicate with them.

IMO, everyone who wants to play music should learn at least basic music theory. Not only does it help you communicate, but gives you an understanding of why what you are playing works.


Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[bats brew]

On 12/10/2024 at 3:21 AM, pwallie said:

can't you try and describe what you want without using theory language that the others don't understand? ("make the guitar sound more like an iceberg" etc etc) - because what you're saying is that music theory does stop creativity

NOT WHAT i'm saying.

and i'm not sure i can convey it any better to you.

 

when i am talking about creativity, i'm typically talking about the ability to speak 'music'.

not sounds, that falls under some other category.

you want to have an ability to quickly translate want, to have.

i've never heard a guitar sound like an iceberg.

that just sounds juvenile.

 

sounds, typically, are a different subject matter, than how to quickly change arrangements, key signatures, time signatures, and the like. these things you learn when you study music theory.

understanding music theory, is like having open doors, vs something you have to find the key under the door mat.

 

we're talking music theory here, not how to twiddle knobs to make stuff sound like icebergs, correct?

 

[Base 57]

2 hours ago, bats brew said:

we're talking music theory here, not how to twiddle knobs to make stuff sound like iceberg

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

Of course I was wrong once. It could happen a second time.

[bats brew]

it did help make my point more solid,

so there's that.

 

[Byron Dickens]

3 hours ago, Base 57 said:

Of course I was wrong once. It could happen a second time.

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

[craigb]

"Can you make that note a bit more lime-greenish?"

[Notes_Norton]

A talented person can be creative without music theory

Music theory won't help an untalented creator, nor will it harm a talented one.

For the talented creator, music theory is just one more tool in the toolbox.