Just $10 for Ultra-Realistic Legato Flute w/ 63 Deep Articulations in Soundpaint

[DeeringAmps]

alrighty, for $10 seemed like a "no brainer"!

t

Hey, its not "Friday" and its not "Monday" so I really didn't "break" my "I'm not getting sucked in on any BF or CM deals", rioght!

[Anxiousmofo]

Hard to pass that up. 

[Technostica]

I'm intrigued by the Sound Paint platform but haven't used it or kept up with its development.
How much has it evolved in terms of Keyswitches and multiple microphone positions etc?

As someone with a large 8Dio hoard, crossgrading to SP versions where you get to mix and match parts from different libraries within a patch is such a flexible approach.
Although, Kontakt has become almost a safety blanket, so I prioritise that.

[PavlovsCat]

I strongly recommend downloading and creating your own programs/presets with free 1928 Steinway grand piano. That's where I started. I've used KONTAKT for two decades and created a ton of presets but never like I had after the first time I tried with SoundPaint. My KONTAKT presets are mostly tweaks of factory presets. I'd strongly recommend playing around with ADSR, the various effects, the arpeggiator, layer other libraries with your libraries either in the other libraries' factory patches or adjust it to your liking, it's very easy to do.  For example, the free piano with Free Angels or another free library. Even though I own a bunch of Rhodes libraries I'm very happy with for KONTAKT,  I still bought SP's Mark 1 last year, due to the programming and layering abilities in SoundPaint. I'm going to pick up the flute, but I presently have no free SSD space and need to install a new drive.

As a consultant, I've been giving a bunch of credits to buy instruments. Of course,  they want me to use the products I'm advising on,  but I haven't used any of the credits yet due to my needing to install another SSD. All of the paid SoundPaint libraries I have are ones I've purchased. I would guess that I own around two dozen SoundPaint libraries and probably a bit more 8Dio KONTAKT libraries. I'm not an influencer.  I don't get freebies for posting. I get paid an hourly rate when I'm consulting and do not get paid in sample libraries. How's that for a disclosure folks. As I've written about ethics on things like disclosures, I go out of my way to ensure I live what I've written about. I err on the side of TMI.  

I started delving into programming/ creating my own presets after watching some of their videos by a very talented jazz pianist named Natalie. But they've since been producing videos to show people how to use the sampler. They're largely aimed at beginners,  but by the second video, I found I learned some useful things. I thought this video from a KONTAKT developer named Oliver Codd who produced Nashville Scoring Strings going through SoundPaint was really interesting. 

To learn more about SoundPaint. It starts out super basic, but you can still learn some things that will let you make your own programs/presets:

Edited November 30, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[kitekrazy1]

14 hours ago, Anxiousmofo said:

Hard to pass that up. 

Easy pass if you ignore price and look at the bloat.  

[kitekrazy1]

10 hours ago, Technostica said:

I'm intrigued by the Sound Paint platform but haven't used it or kept up with its development.
How much has it evolved in terms of Keyswitches and multiple microphone positions etc?

As someone with a large 8Dio hoard, crossgrading to SP versions where you get to mix and match parts from different libraries within a patch is such a flexible approach.
Although, Kontakt has become almost a safety blanket, so I prioritise that.

I'm thinking of looking into Melda's MSound Factory.   If you have Melda everything you have more than the LE version.

[PavlovsCat]

7 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Easy pass if you ignore price and look at the bloat.  

TL; DR VERSION
The next time I speak with the 8Dio folks, I'm going to talk about the fact that some users are willing to sacrifice deep sampling in order to have smaller file sizes and suggest the possibility of libraries getting a standard definition version once they reach a certain file size, say 10GB. 

PAVLOVSCAT'S ULTRA-DETAILED VERSION
The file size is pretty big. But it's not accurate to call it bloat. The file size reflects the detailed sampling philosophy behind Troels' approach to making sample libraries since his earlier company, ToneHammer. I don't know how many people realize this, but while Troels is known as a composer who has done trailers for a number of blockbuster movies (I know he has at least one BAFTA) and games who is also a developer, his educational background is actually in technology. I believe his PhD is in AI. So he's very much a technologist, not just a composer who does development. Going back two decades, he's the person I first remember using the phrase "deep-sampled." But to your point -- kitekrazy -- I'm sure that there are users and users who in some instances -- would prefer to sacrifice deep sampling in order to have a smaller file size. They presently offer some libraries in standard definition. Perhaps I will suggest that once  files reach a certain threshold (file size) that they consider offering a standard definition version. For argument's sake, I'll say 10GB.  I think the ultra-deep sampling was a big draw for pros, but as SoundPaint targets hobbyists and pros, I think that the standard definition (as opposed to deep sampled) option is likely more important for many hobbyists. 

For those not clear on situations where demanding and especially pro users will strongly prefer detailed samples, consider piano libraries. Some developers will sacrifice having both pedal-up and pedal-down samples for a smaller file size and opt for only pedal-up samples. It makes a significant difference in file size, of course, to have both. To the most demanding users, it's a very big deal. However, to many hobbyists who aren't as demanding, it likely may be considered unnecessary bloat. The question then becomes, does the developer choose to make a standard definition version of every library that meets a certain size.  My hot take is that it could make sense. SoundPaint is already doing this with some libraries, but clearly, not this one. It also may drive up the overall costs, of course, to have to maintain two separate library versions. So it may not be a slam dunk case. But I'm going to share the feedback and present the best case I can, because it does appear to make sense. It does appear likely to be in the interests of many customers they serve.  

Edited December 1, 2023 by PavlovsCat
grammatical edit

[Anxiousmofo]

2 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Easy pass if you ignore price and look at the bloat.  

I love me some flute sounds, synthesized or sampled.  I grabbed it and will give it a go. If I decide it's not worth the space, I know what to do.

[PavlovsCat]

6 hours ago, Anxiousmofo said:

I love me some flute sounds, synthesized or sampled.  I grabbed it and will give it a go. If I decide it's not worth the space, I know what to do.

Share your thoughts once you have a chance to spend some time with it. I'm seriously excited to worth with 8Dio on SoundPaint because I am a fan and a user of SoundPaint long before they contacted me. I think it's a really exciting sampler and I can tell you guys I was in a meeting and there's some extremely cool things coming up for 2024 that I'm having a hard time not sharing. 

[Kirean]

I know there's a list on 8dio where you can see which 8dio libraries have been ported to Soundpaint, but are there any crossgrade deals to get those Soundpaint libraries on the cheap, if one already owns the Kontakt version?

[Anxiousmofo]

21 minutes ago, Kirean said:

I know there's a list on 8dio where you can see which 8dio libraries have been ported to Soundpaint, but are there any crossgrade deals to get those Soundpaint libraries on the cheap, if one already owns the Kontakt version?

I think it's usually $10 per crossgrade. You can write to support and get codes. I've been meaning to act on the Bazantar and Basstard discount codes I received but haven't done it yet. 

[PavlovsCat]

26 minutes ago, Kirean said:

I know there's a list on 8dio where you can see which 8dio libraries have been ported to Soundpaint, but are there any crossgrade deals to get those Soundpaint libraries on the cheap, if one already owns the Kontakt version?

I'm not a spokesperson for 8Dio, just a fan who happens to be doing some independent consulting. So I'm just responding here as a fellow forum member, but I would suggest you contact their support person. I mean, I'm friends with Tawnia, the CEO, but when I have questions, I contact support and their support has been consistently excellent and very friendly. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[Doug Rintoul]

1 hour ago, PavlovsCat said:

I'm not a spokesperson for 8Dio, just a fan who happens to be doing some independent consulting. So I'm just responding here as a fellow forum member, but I would suggest you contact their support person. I mean, I'm friends with Tawnia, the CEO, but when I have questions, I contact support and their support has been consistently excellent and very friendly. 

I can attest to this as well. Unlike a company who shall be nameless but whose initials are iKM, 8Dio rewards past clients. During the recent Black Friday sales, I was able to get the Insolidus choir for $30 because I already had Silka. I was also able to get Roula for $14 because I already had the other six  items in the Singers Emotional Bundle. All I did was write support and they came through with a personalized coupon. All my other past interactions have been exceptional as well.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Doug Rintoul

[Carl Ewing]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:43 AM, PavlovsCat said:

 What I find SoundPaint excels at is the quality of the effects -- they're far better than those in KONTAKT, the ease of use to delve into editing and programming and make your own presets for SoundPaint is superior to any other sampler Ive used. I've had a KONTAKT developer friend explain to me why the 127 velocity layers is such a big deal,  which candidly,  I never fully understood until he explained it to me. SoundPaint is the first sampler where I've created my own presets from scratch that go really deep and it's super easy and actually a lot of fun to experiment with. Two KONTAKT developers I know compared SoundPaint to Omnisphere, which I don't use, but clearly,  these developers like a lot. Quoting one of them, "It's like a next-generation version of Omnisphere," that's from a very well-respected KONTAKT developer well known in this forum. 

Who are these people? Soundpaint is not even remotely - like not even close by a country mile - as sophisticated as either Kontakt or Omnisphere when it comes to synthesis, sound design or effects. That is just completely false.

1) Soundpaint's effects cannot be compared to Kontakt. Soundpaint has a couple nice effects (nice reverb emulation and nice LA2A emulation), but Kontakt has an enormous set of effects, including a convolution reverb (which nullifies any claims about Soundpaint's reverb capabilities) , an entire suite of ported over VST effects inside the engine,  including all the native Softube effects from NI's main line, and including categories not even available in Soundpaint. It isn't  even comparable. 

2) "Next generation version of Omnisphere" has to be 100% bs. Soundpaint isn't as sophisticated as Omnisphere 1 from 10+ years ago, let alone Omnisphere 2. There are entire categories of synthesis & sample manipulation inside Omnisphere that are not available in Soundpaint. It's modulation matrix and envelope control blow Soundpaint completely out of the water. It's effect list, filters, osillator section, synth engine section (and modulation capababilities) aren't even comparable. 

Actually - I own Soundpaint's Dunescape - inspired by Dune. The source samples are 70GB on my drive. Virtually all the sound of that library comes from the source samples, not what the engine is doing with them. Yet, the guy who actually worked on the movie released multiple Omnisphere libraries based on that work, where he creates these type sounds with 3mb patches inside Omnisphere, using only the synth engine.  Soundpaint is not capable of this kind of advanced sysnthesis. It needs a far more sophisticated oscillator section, a granular engine, waveshaper, harmonic and unison engine, with far more complex lfo / envelope / routing and filter options. Not to mention - even when it comes to it's stock library - we're talking 500 wavetables, and an absolutely enormous source library that includes samples of almost every hardware synth ever made. And then The Orb, which makes macro & iPad touch control effortless, which affects what you can do with modulation control.

I like Soundpaint's dynamic sustains and legato features. And I do like the effects quality. It does absolutely eclipse Omnisphere in the ability to build multi-sample instruments. No argument there. That's where Soundpaint would be compared to Kontakt, and Soundpaint cannot compete with Kontakt's scripting engine.

8Dio are not going to eclipse the team at Spectrasonics or Native Instruments on synth / sample engines. Not yet anyway. 

Having said all that - to stay on thread target - $10 for a great flute is a no-brainer. If I didn't hate the sound of the flute with the passion of 1000 angry & neglected red-headed step-children, I would buy it!

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Carl Ewing

[TravEllerZero]

2 hours ago, Anxiousmofo said:

I think it's usually $10 per crossgrade. You can write to support and get codes. I've been meaning to act on the Bazantar and Basstard discount codes I received but haven't done it yet. 

In my experience, the discount has been half off. For those interested, the list of 8dio libraries that have been ported over can be found here: https://8dioproductions.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/8916942071835-Soundpaint-8Dio-Crossgrade-List

[PavlovsCat]

1 hour ago, Carl Ewing said:

Who are these people? Soundpaint is not even remotely - like not even close by a country mile - as sophisticated as either Kontakt or Omnisphere when it comes to synthesis, sound design or effects. That is just completely false.

1) Soundpaint's effects cannot be compared to Kontakt. Soundpaint has a couple nice effects (nice reverb emulation and nice LA2A emulation), but Kontakt has an enormous set of effects, including a convolution reverb (which nullifies any claims about Soundpaint's reverb capabilities) , an entire suite of ported over VST effects inside the engine,  including all the native Softube effects from NI's main line, and including categories not even available in Soundpaint. It isn't  even comparable. 

2) "Next generation version of Omnisphere" has to be 100% bs. Soundpaint isn't as sophisticated as Omnisphere 1 from 10+ years ago, let alone Omnisphere 2. There are entire categories of synthesis & sample manipulation inside Omnisphere that are not available in Soundpaint. It's modulation matrix and envelope control blow Soundpaint completely out of the water. It's effect list, filters, osillator section, synth engine section (and modulation capababilities) aren't even comparable. 

Actually - I own Soundpaint's Dunescape - inspired by Dune. The source samples are 70GB on my drive. Virtually all the sound of that library comes from the source samples, not what the engine is doing with them. Yet, the guy who actually worked on the movie released multiple Omnisphere libraries based on that work, where he creates these type sounds with 3mb patches inside Omnisphere, using only the synth engine.  Soundpaint is not capable of this kind of advanced sysnthesis. It needs a far more sophisticated oscillator section, a granular engine, waveshaper, harmonic and unison engine, with far more complex lfo / envelope / routing and filter options. Not to mention - even when it comes to it's stock library - we're talking 500 wavetables, and an absolutely enormous source library that includes samples of almost every hardware synth ever made. And then The Orb, which makes macro & iPad touch control effortless, which affects what you can do with modulation control.

I like Soundpaint's dynamic sustains and legato features. And I do like the effects quality. It does absolutely eclipse Omnisphere in the ability to build multi-sample instruments. No argument there. That's where Soundpaint would be compared to Kontakt, and Soundpaint cannot compete with Kontakt's scripting engine.

8Dio are not going to eclipse the team at Spectrasonics or Native Instruments on synth / sample engines. Not yet anyway. 

Having said all that - to stay on thread target - $10 for a great flute is a no-brainer. If I didn't hate the sound of the flute with the passion of 1000 angry & neglected red-headed step-children, I would buy it!

Carl, you know there's no way that I'm knowledgeable enough to make those comparisons myself or anywhere close to as knowledgeable as you. The quote -- or more accurately, paraphrase-- from a KONTAKT developer was an initial reaction after spending a day with the SoundPaint sampler. He loved it. You can probably make a better guess why he might have said that than I can, as you're an Omisphere user and a SoundPaint user and you know this stuff at a level far beyond me. I don't own and have never used Omnisphere.  I thought it was interesting as I later found the video from the developer Oliver Codd, the fellow behind Audio Ollie, (I included the video in an earlier post) and he also made an Omnisphere comparison. If you have a chance, give it a watch and maybe it will make more sense to you as someone who uses Omisphere, why multiple KONTAKT developers have made that comparison. 

When you wrote, "It does absolutely eclipse Omnisphere in the ability to build multi-sample instruments," did you mean for the ability of the average user to build their own instruments? 

In any event, I think there are two big facts worth mentioning. Omnisphere has been around a very long time and sells for around $480 USD. SoundPaint has been around two years and is free. I'm not ready for it to replace KONTAKT just yet. I think I said it earlier in the thread that as a musician user of sample libraries, the area where KONTAKT absolutely shines is scripting, IMO.  I was very involved in the product development (as an input, like a product manager capacity) of Orange Tree Samples Evolution line of guitars and yeah, I'm definitely not leaving them. I'm also not leaving Superior Drummer. But before 8Dio ever reached out to me, I had around two dozen SoundPaint libraries and had made a bunch of programs for it and had been telling friends about it and had posted about it in this forum. While it's not KONTAKT and it's not Omisphere, I think it brings something different and worthwhile to the table. KONTAKT remains my most used sampler, SoundPaint has become my second most used sampler over the past year or so.   

When I wrote that the effects in SoundPaint seem better than those in KONTAKT, that was my observation, but after I heard that from a KONTAKT developer and found that developer Oliver Codd said the same thing in his video, I felt more confident that my own observation was accurate.  And again, I wouldn't profess to have even 1/100th of your knowledge, Carl; I would defer to your expertise; I just felt the effects were better and when two experts stated that, I thought that it validated what I thought for myself, I've truly learned a lot from reading your posts. So everyone absolutely can take my opinions on things with a grain of salt, that I'm no expert, just a hobbyist user. But I thought the effects that I've used in SoundPaint seem a lot better to my ears than the similar effects I've used in KONTAKT and I'm able to do things programming/sound design-wise in SoundPaint that either I can't do in KONTAKT or I just have never figured out how to do in KONTAKT.  All I know is that I'm doing things in SoundPaint that I can't do in KONTAKT and it's actually fun to do that stuff in SoundPaint. But I'm absolutely not an expert when it comes to making those comparisons, and to be candid, I wouldn't even share them without a bunch of caveats if I didn't hear the same thing from expert developers and as I've said before, I post here as myself, sharing my own thoughts and opinions, I don't post in any capacity for a developer. So there's no way I can match your expertise in analyzing this stuff, I would definitely defer to you and your expert opinion. I'm just a hobbyist with very simple observations and then reporting what I've heard from experts. 

On another note, I think you owe all of our red-headed forum members an apology -- and my daughter plays the flute, mister! It's a lovely instrument, 

Edited December 1, 2023 by PavlovsCat

[Wookiee]

I do hope no one is getting a push back or other bonus for promoting this.