Drum Replacer Alternatives

[dantarbill]

I'm trying Drum Replacer for the first time.  I've discovered that the stock replacement samples are a bit limited...but I don't (yet) want to go chasing down more appropriate ones.  In particular, all the replacement toms ring way too much.  A transient shaper would be the obvious solution, but it's NOT so obvious where to put FX where they affect the replacement samples rather than the original source audio.

Put another way, where is the replacement audio in respect to the ProChannel fx chain and/or the standard FX slot?

Edited February 18, 2019 by dantarbill

[scook]

Notice the clip area at the top of the signal flow diagram

Region FX happen just before the Clip FX Rack.

[John Vere]

You use drum replacer to create the midi data then drag the data to an empty midi track and treat it like any other drum data.  You don't want to use the supplied drum samples they are pretty bad.

Then you and get rid of the drum replacer track and the Regional crap.  point the track(s)  at  you favourite VST drummer and move on. 

[Gswitz]

You can also use audio snap to get the midi data. Audio snap has the benefit of being able to manually include and exclude if you have time to listen to the track. It has the problem of not having the eq part that drum replacer has. I put the different drums on different tracks so i have the visual of the hits as i watch the console view. Maybe i can see a snare hit that also triggers the kick sample. I send the separate tracks to the same drum synth.

[chris.r]

1 hour ago, dantarbill said:

where to put FX where they affect the replacement samples rather than the original source audio

that would qualify for a brilliant feature request, me thinks

[dantarbill]

15 hours ago, scook said:

Notice the clip area at the top of the signal flow diagram

Region FX happen just before the Clip FX Rack.

Thanks so much for the updated signal flow diagram...

This would suggest that I could put FX on the clip FX bin for the Region FX clip.

The diagram raises another somewhat unrelated question though.  I had assumed that the FX bin was somewhere in series with the ProChannel.  The diagram strongly implies that it is an either/or affair (or that it's in parallel...which would seem less useful in most cases).  That is to say that the FX bin is just plain ignored when the ProChannel is engaged for a channel.

Is this true?

If so...it's something that I wish I had known a long time ago.  It's means that you more or less have to use an FX chain wrapper in order to use non-ProChannel FX.  (That is to say that I *have to* because I very rarely don't use the ProChannel on any given track.)

Edited January 14, 2019 by dantarbill

[dantarbill]

15 hours ago, Cactus Music said:

You use drum replacer to create the midi data then drag the data to an empty midi track and treat it like any other drum data.  You don't want to use the supplied drum samples they are pretty bad.

Then you and get rid of the drum replacer track and the Regional crap.  point the track(s)  at  you favourite VST drummer and move on. 

This is probably the better approach for the long game.

Yeah...supplied drum samples = pretty bad.

[scook]

The PC and FX Rack are processed in series. By default the PC is before the track FX Rack. It may be placed after the track FX rack using the "Post FX Rack" option in the PC context menu or the Post button above the mini-Quad Curve EQ in the track inspector and console view.

[dantarbill]

9 minutes ago, scook said:

The PC and FX Rack are processed in series. By default the PC is before the track FX Rack. It may be placed after the track FX rack using the "Post FX Rack" option in the PC context menu or the Post button above the mini-Quad Curve EQ in the track inspector and console view.

Whew!

Thanks so much for the clarification.

[dantarbill]

On 1/13/2019 at 7:55 PM, Cactus Music said:

You use drum replacer to create the midi data then drag the data to an empty midi track and treat it like any other drum data.  You don't want to use the supplied drum samples they are pretty bad.

Then you and get rid of the drum replacer track and the Regional crap.  point the track(s)  at  you favourite VST drummer and move on. 

I'm trying this approach using AD2 as the "favourite VST drummer".  The problems I'm having now is that Drum Replacer has a limited range of MIDI notes to assign drums to (35 through 53), and the AD2 notes (for toms for instance) are 77 through 82.

Is there an easier way to do this?

Are there better replacement tools?

I would think that Addictive Trigger would, at the very least, not have the MIDI mapping mismatch.  Then again, there goes $150.

Thoughts?

[Gswitz]

@dantarbill

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Region_FX.07.html

You can copy the region to a midi track and drag the row of midi events to any midi note you like.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Gswitz

[John Vere]

It's never easy when trying to manipulate data in way it was never meant to be manipulated

As Gswitz posted above.  You generate the midi data for each kit piece and then you can put it where ever you want it to play in PVR easily. I don't even change the replacer assignments. 

Toms are a nightmare as drum replacer doesn't seem to pick out which tom ( hi. mid low)  unless you closed miked them with gates.  And crash cymbals will leak into the mix etc. It's a lot of editing one way or the other.  

What I do is use a blend of the audio drums and mix in with a bit of VST.  I then use the VST to tighten up the timing and enhance the sound.  Then use volume envelopes to get rid of out of time hits from the audio tracks. It's a lot of work... But worth it in cases like mine were the drum tracks are very old and the drummer is long gone down the road. This one particular drummer had a very dark tone which I never liked much.  And his timing was sloppy.  There's only 5 audio tracks which is limiting.