whoisp Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 10 hours ago, John Vere said: I absolutely believe that 48/24 is the perfect choice for me. And when it becomes the standard I’ll bump it up to 48/32 I am not sure why anyone would need more, current DAW with PC and software does not benefit from anything more. 24-bit audio recordings can capture a dynamic range of up to 144.5 dB and you don't need more than that in music on any digital platform. Meanwhile, 32-bit float audio can capture the absolutely ludicrous range up to 1,528 dB. That's not only massively beyond the scope of 24-bit audio, but it's beyond the scale of what even counts as a sound on Earth that will eat your file system when tracking to record etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, whoisp said: Meanwhile, 32-bit float audio can capture the absolutely ludicrous range up to 1,528 dB. That's not only massively beyond the scope of 24-bit audio, but it's beyond the scale of what even counts as a sound on Earth that will eat your file system when tracking to record etc whale farts. look it up. prove me wrong ? Edited October 31, 2023 by Glenn Stanton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, whoisp said: I am not sure why anyone would need more, current DAW with PC and software does not benefit from anything more. 24-bit audio recordings can capture a dynamic range of up to 144.5 dB and you don't need more than that in music on any digital platform. Meanwhile, 32-bit float audio can capture the absolutely ludicrous range up to 1,528 dB. That's not only massively beyond the scope of 24-bit audio, but it's beyond the scale of what even counts as a sound on Earth that will eat your file system when tracking to record etc True. If you dont do music for movies, 44100/24 has enough dynamics (headroom) record and mix in to eliminate any aliasing. I only use 48/24 if i have to create something for a commercial, or if i do a track for some end credits rolls on an episode or for a movie. Otherwise i record my artist and my own music in 44100/24. Never had an issue. Theres plenty of software out there that will demonstrate this to you if you do some tests with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoisp Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: whale farts. look it up. prove me wrong ? anything that eats and shits ..... passes gas but im not sure the fart dynamic range that can be represented by a 32-bit (floating point) file is 1528 dB ? but you could get some sonar blip at 700khz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) In reviewing Zoom’s website, I get the impression that “dynamic range” is NOT the “advantage” offered by 32bit float. The advantage is you cannot digitally clip the signal. Well, that’s a good thing, but somebody correct me if I’m wrong here, the “engineer” has no control over the signal path, read that as the gain structure. I’ll pass. And @whoispif CbB is is setup Record 24, Render 32; every bounced track is 32 bit, so the notion that recording at 32 is a huge resource “hog”? - it’s no big deal… I’m a “hard” 48-24, but it’s “your” dime. (Read “your” as the royal y’all, if you get my meaning) t Edited October 31, 2023 by DeeringAmps 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoisp Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said: And @whoispif CbB is is setup Record 24, Render 32; every bounced track is 32 bit, so the notion that recording at 32 is a huge resource “hog”? - it’s no big deal… I’m a “hard” 48-24, but it’s “your” dime. (Read “your” as the royal y’all, if you get my meaning) t Sorry i was meaning using 48/24bit files instead of 32bit files. Meaning if i remember, 32bit takes about 33% more storage space? If you keep rendering every thing off in 32bit .i.e if you create your own samples like i do and use loads in a project like i do with lots going on, automation plugins and FX etc project gets big and slow. I do say some where in the thread keep files and all setting to 48/24 just so everything a standard. CbB does have the 64 DPE which i use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azslow3 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Since I have mentioned that indirectly only in my lengthy post: 24bit and 32bit (floating point) files have the same precision for the sample amplitude. The difference is that in the first the precision of particular sample depends from its amplitude and in the second it does not. F.e. if a track with max level -24dB is rendered into 24bit file, 4 upper bits in any sample will be 0. So effectively it will be 20bit format. 32bits solve the problem, the source with any level has 24bit precision. And there are no "consequences" apart from the file size. 32bit (float) recording in some Zoom devices serve the same purpose. But since that is technically implemented using "tricks", there is some degradation in fidelity in comparison with (proper gain staged) 24bit recording device. Most users claim the degradation is unnoticeable (in the corresponding price range segment) and well worse the fact you can forget about gain knob (it does not exist) and concentrate on more important things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Anderton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I know this thread is nominally about bit depth and not sample rates, but since sample rates keep getting mentioned, y'all might enjoy this article that busts 12 sample rate myths. It even includes audio examples for those who wonder if you really can hear a difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 as a note: 32-bit float cannot be "digitally" clipped - true, but you can definitely overload the ADC devices prior to that... so the idea that people won't get distortion isn't true - partly due to the quality of the converter but also the input signal to the ADC and any pre-ADC processing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Anderton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 42 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: as a note: 32-bit float cannot be "digitally" clipped - true, but you can definitely overload the ADC devices prior to that... so the idea that people won't get distortion isn't true You realize you have no future in marketing, right? ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Craig Anderton said: You realize you have no future in marketing, right? ? moi? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said: you can definitely overload the ADC devices prior to that Yes. And since on Zoom's website it looked to me like there is no "user" way to control preamp gain, I surmise (as you did) that they are "burning in" some kind of automatic gain control in front of the ADC. I'll handle the compression/limiting and gain staging "Thank you very much!" t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I should add that at least one user here on the forum is getting results that "blow away" his RME UCXII. (we are talking about the Zoom 32bit 232 here) It has resolved all the "issues" he was having, and I'm happy for him! But, for me?, I'll stick with 48/24... t 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 @whoisp So you are recording at 24 AND bouncing at 24 as well? Evidently, from a technical stand point, this allows "errors" to "build up" and eventually "affects" the sound "quality". Well duh, everything we do is "meant" to affect/effect the sound; yea? If it sounds "right", it is "right"; print it! t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said: I should add that at least one user here on the forum is getting results that "blow away" his RME UCXII. (we are talking about the Zoom 32bit 232 here) It has resolved all the "issues" he was having, and I'm happy for him! But, for me?, I'll stick with 48/24... t Confirmation bias is a thing.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Byron Dickens said: Confirmation bias is a thing.... The Placebo effect is “real”! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoisp Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said: @whoisp So you are recording at 24 AND bouncing at 24 as well? Evidently, from a technical stand point, this allows "errors" to "build up" and eventually "affects" the sound "quality". Well duh, everything we do is "meant" to affect/effect the sound; yea? If it sounds "right", it is "right"; print it! t I only can record at 24bit my SPDIF and Audio interface are 48/24 stable, i use the 64-bit Double Precision Engine in project for maximum dynamic range and precision but bonce back to 48/24 for digital platforms and video. I create my samples with in the project which is set to 32bit render so there's min loss. I think i defaults at 32bit floating point is the internal processing protocol that Cakewalk employs anyway but it is set at 32 Would you set record to 32 even though my ad on 24 Edited October 31, 2023 by whoisp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, whoisp said: Would you set record to 32 NO! I’m 48-24, render at 32. There was a time when “checking “ the 64 bit double precision could cause issues. But it’s “best practice”. For some reason I mistook your post to mean you were rendering at 24 bit. My guess is that in a “dense” mix it probably doesn’t matter. Let’s face it, the “good old tape days” were “noisy”, every pass degraded the signal… We live in the “golden” age, but just can’t see the forest for the trees. (trite, I know, but the truth nonetheless) Take care my friend, always a fan! t Edited November 1, 2023 by DeeringAmps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoisp Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, DeeringAmps said: NO! I’m 48-24, render at 32. There was a time when “checking “ the 64 bit double precision could cause issues. But it’s “best practice”. For some reason I mistook your post to mean you were rendering at 24 bit. My guess is that in a “dense” mix it probably doesn’t matter. Let’s face it, the “good old tape days” were “noisy”, every pass degraded the signal… We live in the “golden” age, but just can’t see the forest for the trees. (trite, I know, but the truth nonetheless) Take care my friend, always a fan! t Yes we can become bogged down in tech settings with DAWS and devices. I still will mess with my buffer for mixing vs recording. On a busy project i might bounce project and automation down to one track so i can track vocals. I like to have a stable system so i can just get creative. I still get the odd crash but its normally me rushing in a busy project or a problem plugin. I still bonce my -6db premaster 48/32bit but there is little difference on imagining to check loss even if i bounce pr master at 24, very rare a issue. The only loss what i use to get is repeatedly bouncing down samples i created. I use to have a sample project for creating my samples to then export them in to projects after bouncing. Like an idiot, i didn't realise i could bounce a track(s) and "automation" to a new tracks within a project durrr. So i was using patches and sends to record etc old school. So now my samples and tracking i do in same project im working on. I only used short cut key bounce (no automation only clips) and never new i could bounce automation with track menu, embarrassing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 On 10/31/2023 at 7:52 AM, whoisp said: I am not sure why anyone would need more, current DAW with PC and software does not benefit from anything more. 24-bit audio recordings can capture a dynamic range of up to 144.5 dB and you don't need more than that in music on any digital platform. Meanwhile, 32-bit float audio can capture the absolutely ludicrous range up to 1,528 dB. That's not only massively beyond the scope of 24-bit audio, but it's beyond the scale of what even counts as a sound on Earth that will eat your file system when tracking to record etc Plagiarized from the 7th paragraph of this article: https://www.wired.com/story/32-bit-float-audio-explained/ Oops. wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now