Question about using Inserts on Mixer?

[John Vere]

I'm preparing for a live recording session this Saturday. I will be using my Tascam us1641 into 14 tracks of Cakewalk. 

This will be this young Vancouver based bands first live performance. The gig will be at one of the band members Aunts farm here in the interior. A barn party, perfect for a first gig. She asked me to come and help them set up the PA and then was talking about how cool it would be to record them. 

The mixer they are bringing is a Behringer Xenyx 2222 FX. I was going to go dig out my XLR  Y cables ( don't laugh, it works) but when I looked at the picture of the back of the board discovered it has the bonus option of insert jacks!  

I don't have the mixer until a few hours before the show so I cannot test this so I thought I would tap into the collective knowledge of this wonderful forum. 

I've used other mixers, Yamaha in particular, that if you use a standard 1/4" TS patch cable and only insert it to the Ring contact ( first click)  you get the direct signal and it doesn't shut off the channel strip. This was a pretty standard way to record to an 8 track. This is the second use of insert jacks. The other of course is to loop it trough a processor using a special Inset  Cable. 

I see the Behringer uses the same system as the Yamaha so I will assume this will work. 

 Then I found a real good tip I think I might be even better. You make special cables shown in the diagram which allows you to insert a stereo jack all the way but it has the Tip and Ring tied together. It gets more complicated because the Tascam only has XLR inputs on the first 8 inputs. I can use the other 6  1/4" inputs, 

But what if I make some cables that are as such. Am I risking an impedance miss-match using the XLR inputs this way?  Pre amp into pre amp wise.  

Tip- goes to XLR pin 2 ( hot) 

Ring- is shorted to tip.

Sleeve - is shielding goes to XLR pin 1 Ground 

XLR pin 3  open. or shorted to pin 1??  

Talk me out of it.  Thanks for you help. 

 

[Glenn Stanton]

i used my Behringer MX2004A w/ inserts into my patch bay so i could easily tap off each of the 8 channels into my IO unit (TRS to dual TS).  just need to make sure the loop back on those dedicated cables is set right - tip & ring shorted on TRS. shielding is normal.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Glenn Stanton

[John Vere]

Thanks @Glenn Stanton  Yes I am aware of using the Y cables I still have a bunch and yes a patch bay would be handy but mine is long gone. 

All I'm really asking is if anybody has made one of these shorted out cables before. 

And the big issue is if taking the signal which has now passed through the Behringer's pre amp will be to hot for the Tascam's XLR inputs which are also pre amps. I just dug out my Yamaha MD 8 which has inserts on Channels 1 and 2. So I'm going to test that in a few minutes. Impedance miss matching is a bad idea when what you are after is a nice clean signal. What's really missing is my interface is limited to only 4 true line inputs. 1-8 are mike inputs only, 9 and 10 are at least switchable between line and instrument so I have 6 useable inputs. 

And I'll need Phantom power on 4 mikes which at least the Tascam has split into 1-4 and 5-8. You defiantly don't want phantom power involved when interconnecting 2 mixers. 

After I dug out the Yamaha MD8 I looked at it and went- I could could just use this! Nope, need exactly 14 channel. 

[John Vere]

That was totally weird, I typed the above reply 3 hours ago and it was blocked. Said it was held for approval??. That's a first for me. 

 

 

I tested the insert using a TRS to XLR cable. It seems to work.  I see why the guy invented the shorted out version as the cable is not really seated its just sitting there. So I think I'll make one up and see,  I'm about to hit the Submit reply button... lets see what happens.

[Glenn Stanton]

oh, to answer the question - yes i have made those cables as i didn't have a proper patch bay years ago, and they work fine. also - many inserts on mixers have a 2-step (at least older ones did) where you could insert partially to get the signal without breaking the path (e.g. Tapco etc) so you only needed a mono cable, so if its feeling like it's not seated with the TRS, make sure it's fully inserted into the jack.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:08 PM, Glenn Stanton said:

oh, to answer the question - yes i have made those cables as i didn't have a proper patch bay years ago, and they work fine. also - many inserts on mixers have a 2-step (at least older ones did) where you could insert partially to get the signal without breaking the path (e.g. Tapco etc) so you only needed a mono cable, so if its feeling like it's not seated with the TRS, make sure it's fully inserted into the jack.

Sniff & break