Now this lady has a lot of nice toys!

[User 905133]

Some more links if you like this kind of music:

 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Seeing someone play it in real time on a rig with at least 9 different physical instruments is a novelty, it's a throwback to Vangelis or Tomita

Whenever I think of live synth music, I remember a video of Jean-Michel  Jarre live with nothing but synth issues. Synths would stop producing notes mid performance, go out of sync and all sorts of fun stuff. That video used to be on YouTube but I can't find it anymore for some reason.

[craigb]

3 hours ago, Bapu said:

I only ever hung out with famous people *before* they were famous.

Does that make me a bad person?

Oh...  and here I was thinking that they only became famous after hanging out with the Bapu! ?

[David Baay]

17 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

It raises the question: is the music inherently interesting, or is it only interesting because it's all boutique modules and vintage keyboards? If she were sitting behind a scratched up Dell Latitude with stickers all over the lid, making similar music, would we bother?

That's kind of what I was getting at: In the absence of video, you could get a very comparable aural result from far less hardware (though, admittedly I skipped ahead at some point - probably right around the 6-minute mark - to see how the video would end, so maybe I missed something important...?). The video content is the only thing that made me listen for more than a minute, and it wasn't captivating enough to make me endure the full musical composition.

[User 905133]

Some people can sit, watch, and listen to an entire symphony; other people just want a recording of the greatest hits from the 30 or so "Greatest Symphonies of All Times" that they can turn on an off as they want.  Others might just want a set of the "Greatest Guitar Solos of All Times."  

For some people mp3s playing on ear buds or a single wi-fi speaker in a single location or (on from cell phone playlists in their pockets as they go about from place to place) is enough for them to enjoy music.

Some people like the added dimension of seeing performers as the music is created or played.  Some people don't.

It's a matter of personal preference. 

[Tony Carpenter]

I think the funny part of this amazing display of separate pieces of hardware is that any decent workstation can do this all internally (almost).  I personally want to see what Yamaha do with the new Montage replacement. I love and won't be replacing my Montage 7, and a friend of mine is suffering with his Kronos 2s ( yes 2 of them). But it sure is cool to watch someone twiddling all those knobs and levers and worrying cables about. 

[Notes_Norton]

 

[Jim Roseberry]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:21 PM, Tony Carpenter said:

I think the funny part of this amazing display of separate pieces of hardware is that any decent workstation can do this all internally (almost).  I personally want to see what Yamaha do with the new Montage replacement. I love and won't be replacing my Montage 7, and a friend of mine is suffering with his Kronos 2s ( yes 2 of them). But it sure is cool to watch someone twiddling all those knobs and levers and worrying cables about. 

 

I'd liken the situation to Joe Bonamassa and tube guitar amps. 

Top-tier modeling/profiling guitar processors sound good and are far more convenient/cost-effective, but purists are always going to choose high-end tube amps. 

It's the same with Lisa Bella Donna and her analog synths.

 

Been a workstation keyboard user for decades.

Have owned most recent makes including Montage 7/8, Kronos 88, K2700, Fantom 7/8

If you're talking about authentic analog sounds... none of those workstations are going to satisfy a purist (Lisa Bella Donna).

 

Montage:

Analog type sounds are OK... but the filter and mono voice priority/articulation are not quite right.

ie:  On Foreigner's "Feels Like The First Time", there's the analog synth melody in the Bridge.

Montage can get in the ballpark... but something like the Nord Stage 3/4 VA Synth section gets a whole lot closer.

This is partly why I got rid of my Montage 7/8 keyboards (having used them for several years).

 

K2700:

UI is horrible.  

Programming VAST is a "vast" time-consumer.  Even a simple mono lead sound is super tedious to program.

The digital VAST filters don't sound anything like a Moog/Oberheim/Prophet Filter (compared side-by-side).

Portamento on the K2700 isn't smooth like what you'd find on an analog synth (One, Model-D, OB-X8, Prophet-10).

It's hard to put into words, but the algorithm is somehow skewed... and just sounds odd/wrong.

Nothing like "Ridin' The Storm Out" intro/outro where the pitch-glide is smooth/consistent.

I can't believe that got past beta-testing.

 

Kronos:

The modeled analog synth engines (~12 years old) still sound pretty-good...

But if you compare directly to a OB-8X, Prophet-10, Matriarch, Model-D... you'll likely be disappointed.

Kronos' greatest feature is its ability to stream samples directly from disk.

If you've ever tried loading your own samples into Kronos, it's fairly tedious.

With John Melas' Waveform Editor, it's much easier to get user-samples into Montage.

Kronos keyboard action (88 weighted) is one of my favorite.

 

Fantom:

The new Roland Fantom series has a great UI... and IMO some of the best sounding digital filters.

That said, if you use 3 or 4 partials (loosely the equivalent to an oscillator), you can quickly run out of polyphony and hear obvious voice-stealing.

This is when layering sounds... for songs like Here I Go Again (where you've got layers of acoustic piano, electric piano, synth pad, and a vocal type pad).

Montage and Kronos can pull more real-world polyphony.  Setting up a similar dense 4-part layer on either... you can't hear any voice-stealing.

Live, I often have a mic in one hand... and have to play with the other.  I need usable Aftertouch to add vibrato/etc.

Aftertouch on Fantom series takes massive pressure to initiate. It's more of an on/off switch (not a lot of subtle expression).

Getting user-samples into Fantom is slow/tedious.

Sold my Fantom 7/8 due to these reasons.

 

Certainly workstations have a lot of useful features that go way beyond the scope of re-issued analog synths.

Having owned the One, OB-X8, Prophet-10, Matriarch, etc... it would be nice to see modern appointments to bring these instruments more up-to-date.

Higher polyphony, onboard effects, more controllers, more extensive/flexible modulation, larger display, presets, etc.

 

Over several years, I found myself getting more frustrated with Montage acoustic pianos, electric pianos, organs, and analog type synth sounds.

Never had an issue with the UI, programming, or convenience. 

In fact, out of all workstations, Montage (until something else comes out) would still be my first choice.

On a lark, I tried a Nord Stage 3 (after seeing Toto), and the Stage 3 was strong in all the areas where I felt Montage was lacking.

Never ever thought I'd love using a "Stage Piano".

I'm making it sound like Montage is terrible.  It's definitely not.  I just grew more frustrated with its limitations... over a period of several years.

My needs as a player were expanding...

At 56, I appreciate that the 88-key Nord keyboards weigh ~40 pounds.

I know for sure that I'm not taking out a 60 pound keyboard... no matter what the brand/features/etc.   

 

I'm curious to see what Yamaha releases as Montage's successor.

IMO, It needs a dedicated VA Synth engine.

I'd like to see dedicated Piano, Organ, and Synth engines... each with separate polyphony.

Borrow some of what Nord is doing... but take it further.

 

 

 

[RBH]

I think there is a whole lot of myth related to people thinking that modern ITB synths and samplers sound like and perform like the original Analogue synths. I've owned  a number of them - and there really is no comparison.  This can also cross over into early digital synths.  There is definitely a difference in sound quality in hardware module  compared to an ITB version. Convenience is an awesome selling point  - but there is no apples to apples comparison in sound and resolution. Jim's point is right on the money regarding Tube amps and modelers.  The original versions and designs set the standard.

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

1 hour ago, RBH said:

I think there is a whole lot of myth related to people thinking that modern ITB synths and samplers sound like and perform like the original Analogue synths. I've owned  a number of them - and there really is no comparison.  This can also cross over into early digital synths.  There is definitely a difference in sound quality in hardware module  compared to an ITB version. Convenience is an awesome selling point  - but there is no apples to apples comparison in sound and resolution. Jim's point is right on the money regarding Tube amps and modelers.  The original versions and designs set the standard.

There's no way to reliably test that statement or the opposite proponent of that simply because you're not gonna find two examples of the same analog synth which sound the same. There's no reference design to pull from so you can reliably say "X must sound like this in order to be exactly like the original." It's easier with early digital synths, but you're still subjected to variances. The earlier you go, the bigger the variance gets, because now you'll start to hit stuff which was wired by hand instead of being in a circuit board and now you've just introduced extra variances in resistance because of unit A having a path of wire which was cut shorter or longer than unit B. And so on.

[Jesse Screed]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:59 AM, Starship Krupa said:

The music itself in this video....hmm, if I wanted to listen to something like this I'd probably listen to

Wookie or Bjorn over in the songs forum.  Seriously, they are as good or better than most, including the Mt. Synthmore types.

[Notes_Norton]

I think the analog B-3 organ and the new digital Hammonds sound close, but different. But IMO, once you record them digitally, the difference is, for all practical purposes, gone.

However, I'd much rather schlep a digital B-3 than the 400 pound monster.

 

 

Notes ♫

[User 905133]

1 hour ago, Jesse Screed said:

 Seriously, they are as good or better than most, including the Mt. Synthmore types.

WTF is Mt. Synthmore?  Google doesn't seem to know.  Did you make that up?

[craigb]

3 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

WTF is Mt. Synthmore?  Google doesn't seem to know.  Did you make that up?

I used to have Mt. Rockmore!  (At least mine featured HEADS, ya? ?)

[User 905133]

Google knows Mt. / Mount Rockmore.  Example 1   Example 2  Example 3:

 

[Tony Carpenter]

@Jim Roseberry I do not argue they are different. And in fact I did own one solitary example of old school analogue, a Jupiter 6. Had to tune that baby before playing each time LOL. I think my point was, it really is about tactile responses. Which I get, just modern stuff along with a laptop and gazillion vsts have made them obsolete, just like virtual model amps. And yes, once you record, no one can tell the difference except in rare cases.

[Jesse Screed]

9 hours ago, User 905133 said:

WTF is Mt. Synthmore?  Google doesn't seem to know.  Did you make that up?

and copy writed too

[Jim Roseberry]

23 hours ago, Tony Carpenter said:

I do not argue they are different. And in fact I did own one solitary example of old school analogue, a Jupiter 6. Had to tune that baby before playing each time LOL. I think my point was, it really is about tactile responses. Which I get, just modern stuff along with a laptop and gazillion vsts have made them obsolete, just like virtual model amps. And yes, once you record, no one can tell the difference except in rare cases.

It's down to how picky you want to be, perhaps can afford to be, and how much inconvenience you can tolerate.   ?

 

Though I went thru a recent period where I bought all the popular analog synth re-issues, I ultimately sold all of them but the new Model-D.

My focus of late has been more on playing live (vs writing/recording).  Had to rein-in the expense (and physical space) consumed by large analog synths.

 

IMO, There's a lot of room for improvement in all instruments (hardware and software).

Being in a cover-band, you've got to mimic many different sounds.  Programming all of those, you start bumping into the finer points (limitations, quirks, etc).

After hearing countless hours of my rambling about limitations, my wife was like... "Why don't you just design your own keyboard?"

Touché wife.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Jim Roseberry

[craigb]

4 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said:

...

After hearing countless hours of my rambling about limitations, my wife was like... "Why don't you just design your own keyboard?"

Touché wife.

 

 

?

 

[Starship Krupa]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:36 AM, Jim Roseberry said:

After hearing countless hours of my rambling about limitations, my wife was like... "Why don't you just design your own keyboard?"

Touché wife.

Which means that she thinks you could pull that off. ?

She won't laugh once the house starts filling up with rack modules....