Playlist Attention Please !!!!!!

[Rfcousins]

Thanks to everyone in development team for the continued feature additions and progress with Cakewalk.

The Playlist however has been sorely neglected IMHO. There are reported issues that have been ignored for many years.

It was great to see the 150+ bug fixes in the last release, but very disappointing to once again find the Playlist not on the list of items getting attention.

Here is the Oldest "Bug" I know of AGAIN!

With Playlist "Enabled":

Begin playback of a Set List of at least 4 projects.

During playback "Mute" and "Unmute" any track. The purpose here is to create one of many scenarios that could cause the (*) asterisk to appear after the project title. This of course indicates that the project has been edited in some way.

After the project has completed playing and the "Next" project is under way: Select the "Window" drop down menu.

You will now see the the 1st project is still open. This behavior will continue until many projects are left open and the computer runs out of resources and CRASHES!

Projects should close after playing regardless of changes to the project without saving any changes to the project.

The last time that I know of ( this is a long time ago-memory?) that this behavior did not exist is Sonar 1. The playlist was then removed in Sonar 2 and inserted again with Sonar 3 and the bug described. 

 

IN the current release 2019.07 this behavior persists as well as:

Lyrics window placed on extended screen does not display as "Full Screen" when Playlist is "Enabled"

 

These behaviors leave me only able to use the Playlist as a way to "select projects" and to load and play one at a time. Better than searching directories for projects for sure but not the way the Playlist used to function. I have been a user since the DOS versions and Cakewalk Live were all the rage. and worked well I might add. 

Cakewalk has been my choice forever because it was and remains the only DAW with the Playlist feature that IMHO is (when working properly)  is the best concept for this feature for the "live' preforming musician. Sorry to say that I know many "live" performers who have abandoned Cakewalk because of the endless problems with thsi feature and the complete lack of attention to the issues.

I have reported these problems by forum, by phone, chat, demonstrated them with remote desktop sessions and still nothing has been corrected.

On a personal level, I started with Cakewalk in my late 30's. At age 67, I am still using it exclusively. I would really appreciate a version with the Playlist behaving correctly before I am either too old to perform or no longer drawing breath!

Can anyone there please give this some attention! A great product needs to be better than the Playlist  feature is at this point!

I am here and willing to help in any way that serves this goal.

Best to All on the Programming Team,

Sincerely,

Roger Cousins

 

[Lombardi]

Hey Roger,

 

Thanks so much for raising this topic again.  I completely agree with your assessment of the Playlist feature.  I too have been a faithful Cakewalk customer since DOS days, and I've got you beat by two years (69) as someone still using Cakewalk exclusively for my studio and live performances.  I actually bailed on the playlist even before Sonar 1 because of it's quirkiness and lack of attention.   Sadly enough, I have been using "Virtual Jukebox" from Cakewalk 9 as my goto for live playback of Cakewalk files.  It's not pretty, and certainly limited, and until recently it required me to keep an old computer with WinXp running so I could use it on the gig.  I managed to install Cakewalk 9 on a 64bit Win 10 machine using the compatabilty mode and the Virtual Jukebox function works! That barebones program uses very little real estate on the screen and allows you to jump around fairly easily.   Unfortunately, every song for live use that I have recorded since Sonar thru Cakewalk by Bandlab, has had to be mixed down, exported as  .wav files, inserted into Cakewalk 9, saved as a .wrk  file before I can use it in the Virtual Jukebox app.  PITA!!!  I absolutely agree that the Playlist could be such a great feature to an already great program.   With the ability to play audio and midi data simultaneously, and add vst and vsti configurations and routing with each song, it could easily compete with Logic's Main Stage on the Mac, or Cantibile, or Abelton Live for that matter.   It seems Cakewalk has no interest in people who want to use their product on stage, and not just in the studio.  What a shame, seems like a market that would have some value.  I have asked for this many times in the past and would be thrilled if they even made an attempt to clean up what they already have, let alone make it better.   Come on Noel, cut us seniors some slack here!!!

Thanks

Bill Lombardi

 

[pax-eterna]

+1

[Tenfoot]

The playlist has indeed been neglected for a very long time. This always struck me as a waste. It is a feature (including lyric view) that no other DAW includes. It was only left out of one release though, and was put back in via an update of that same version.

This behaviour has always existed in the playlist. As soon as a song is seen as changed or 'dirty' it remains open.  I am pretty sure it is an intended behaviour, however inconvenient.

There is a great alternative playlist program called 'midi automator' that can be used with any DAW. That same behaviour persists in it too though, as any DAW will throw up a confirmation dialogue before closing a project with percieved changes.

[Matthew Carr]

Pretty sure you can set 'Midi Automator' up to automatically click on the 'No' button in a confirmation dialog, if it's present, when changing songs... haven't tried it myself though.

Agree it'd be good to get an update to the official app though.. as the official app uses the API, it can preload songs in a setlist for quicker changing.

Are the details of the API available? I might be interested in creating an open source project for this, if they are.

Or maybe Bandlab would consider open sourcing there existing playlist app, so we could add an option to always close dirty projects without saving?

[Tenfoot]

1 hour ago, Matthew Carr said:

Pretty sure you can set 'Midi Automator' up to automatically click on the 'No' button in a confirmation dialog, if it's present, when changing songs... haven't tried it myself though.

Agree it'd be good to get an update to the official app though.. as the official app uses the API, it can preload songs in a setlist for quicker changing.

Are the details of the API available? I might be interested in creating an open source project for this, if they are.

Or maybe Bandlab would consider open sourcing there existing playlist app, so we could add an option to always close dirty projects without saving?

Ah yes. I stand corrected Matthew. I have never utilised the screen monitoring feature for dialogue boxes as I believe it is a bit of a resource hog. That is not really disabling the dialogue though, but it is certainly a possibility if desperate.

Such a great little program.  And free!

[Noel Borthwick]

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

[rcklln]

46 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

That sounds good - similar to TH3's Live button (When active, changes are discarded without prompts)

[Rfcousins]

11 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

Noel, thank you for the response. I believe this would likely solve the problem for me. I have taken great pains to make sure that my projects do  not "modify"so as to use the "Playlist" at all. Unfortunately this is not always possible to achieve. I would be most grateful if this was corrected. 

Also recently reported:

Please be aware that the current release does not manage project layouts correctly on extended (dual display) monitor setups when the Playlist is "Enabled".

My 'lyric' windows that are set to appear on the extended monitor do not appear in "maximized" mode. (Full screen) They are correct when "Playlist" is disabled and project is loaded, but quickly shrink (minimize) when "Enabled" and playback begins. This behavior has appeared in previous versions and been corrected before.

Thank you in advance for any attention to these issues. I believe, as others have stated, that Cakewalk is the best, most flexible DAW for live performers absent the fact that the Playlist is plagued with so many "bugs". I'm sure that there are additional "wish list" items for the Playlist from myself and others, but for now it would be awesome to have these item fixed so I can suggest Cakewalk again to all my fellow "Live" performers.

Grateful for your time!

Roger Cousins

 

[Rfcousins]

On 8/12/2019 at 8:02 PM, Lombardi said:

Hey Roger,

 

Thanks so much for raising this topic again.  I completely agree with your assessment of the Playlist feature.  I too have been a faithful Cakewalk customer since DOS days, and I've got you beat by two years (69) as someone still using Cakewalk exclusively for my studio and live performances.  I actually bailed on the playlist even before Sonar 1 because of it's quirkiness and lack of attention.   Sadly enough, I have been using "Virtual Jukebox" from Cakewalk 9 as my goto for live playback of Cakewalk files.  It's not pretty, and certainly limited, and until recently it required me to keep an old computer with WinXp running so I could use it on the gig.  I managed to install Cakewalk 9 on a 64bit Win 10 machine using the compatabilty mode and the Virtual Jukebox function works! That barebones program uses very little real estate on the screen and allows you to jump around fairly easily.   Unfortunately, every song for live use that I have recorded since Sonar thru Cakewalk by Bandlab, has had to be mixed down, exported as  .wav files, inserted into Cakewalk 9, saved as a .wrk  file before I can use it in the Virtual Jukebox app.  PITA!!!  I absolutely agree that the Playlist could be such a great feature to an already great program.   With the ability to play audio and midi data simultaneously, and add vst and vsti configurations and routing with each song, it could easily compete with Logic's Main Stage on the Mac, or Cantibile, or Abelton Live for that matter.   It seems Cakewalk has no interest in people who want to use their product on stage, and not just in the studio.  What a shame, seems like a market that would have some value.  I have asked for this many times in the past and would be thrilled if they even made an attempt to clean up what they already have, let alone make it better.   Come on Noel, cut us seniors some slack here!!!

Thanks

Bill Lombardi

 

Bill,

Just wanted to thank you for your very supportive post ! Fingers crossed!!

 

Roger

 

[Ben Staton]

Thanks for your feedback.
I've already fixed one of the issues described in the OP, and another is in the works.
Look out for fixes in the next release, or consider participating in the Early Access Program if you want to try it out sooner (release dates tbc).

[Rfcousins]

34 minutes ago, Ben Staton said:

Thanks for your feedback.
I've already fixed one of the issues described in the OP, and another is in the works.
Look out for fixes in the next release, or consider participating in the Early Access Program if you want to try it out sooner (release dates tbc).

Ben,

Thanks for the reply and  FIX ! Couldn't be more excited to try the Early Release version when posted. I was a beta tester for the Cakewalk Pro Audio Version 5 & 6 cycles  back in the day. Always happy help out and have more time now that I am retired from my "day job". Regards to the 'Bakers'. I appreciate their commitment to Cakewalk all these years.

P.S.

What is "OP"?

Regards,

Roger

 

[Ben Staton]

43 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

What is "OP"?

lol, that's me misusing online shorthand for "Original Poster" (ie. you)! I meant to say "described by the OP".

Keep an eye out for the next Early Access release and let us know how you get on ?

[Tenfoot]

17 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

Great idea Noel! 

[Lombardi]

5 hours ago, Rfcousins said:

Bill,

Just wanted to thank you for your very supportive post ! Fingers crossed!!

 

Roger

No problem, thanks for bringing it up!  I was about to give up on ever using the playlist function again.  Looks like there's reason for optimism.  Can't wait to try.

[craigr68]

Sorry I didn't see this post sooner cuz I've ranted a few times about it.  Would love to see this fixed.  I don't know if it was mentioned, but I'm pretty sure automation also causes the dreaded asterisk to appear.  Seems like all that is needed is to play the playlist and ignore changes, automation, etc - maybe an ignore checkbox or something.  I've jumped thru hoops to get around this problem by creating Autohotkey scripts to load projects on the fly instead of using playlists, but it's not an ideal solution. 

[Matthew Carr]

What would be a really helpful  addition is to allow Cakewalk to open a file in a read-only mode, perhaps via a command argument

e.g.   sonar.exe -readonly "C:\songs\my very bad song.cwp"

In read only mode, the save changes dialog would never appear, and changes would never be saved. 

Of course this could be dangerous without understanding it's meaning, but I doubt anyone would set this switch unless they knew what it did. Would be fantastic when using other programs to manage a setlist though..

(Maybe some element of the UI could change colour in read only mode, to make it obvious)

I tried using the playlist app again the other day - wasn't very successful. I send midi data to control outboard gear when I load a backing track, and having two projects open at once seems to foul this up..

[Stefan de Vries]

On 8/13/2019 at 7:02 AM, Lombardi said:

Hey Roger,

 

Thanks so much for raising this topic again.  I completely agree with your assessment of the Playlist feature.  I too have been a faithful Cakewalk customer since DOS days, and I've got you beat by two years (69) as someone still using Cakewalk exclusively for my studio and live performances.  I actually bailed on the playlist even before Sonar 1 because of it's quirkiness and lack of attention.   Sadly enough, I have been using "Virtual Jukebox" from Cakewalk 9 as my goto for live playback of Cakewalk files.  It's not pretty, and certainly limited, and until recently it required me to keep an old computer with WinXp running so I could use it on the gig.  I managed to install Cakewalk 9 on a 64bit Win 10 machine using the compatabilty mode and the Virtual Jukebox function works! That barebones program uses very little real estate on the screen and allows you to jump around fairly easily.   Unfortunately, every song for live use that I have recorded since Sonar thru Cakewalk by Bandlab, has had to be mixed down, exported as  .wav files, inserted into Cakewalk 9, saved as a .wrk  file before I can use it in the Virtual Jukebox app.  PITA!!!  I absolutely agree that the Playlist could be such a great feature to an already great program.   With the ability to play audio and midi data simultaneously, and add vst and vsti configurations and routing with each song, it could easily compete with Logic's Main Stage on the Mac, or Cantibile, or Abelton Live for that matter.   It seems Cakewalk has no interest in people who want to use their product on stage, and not just in the studio.  What a shame, seems like a market that would have some value.  I have asked for this many times in the past and would be thrilled if they even made an attempt to clean up what they already have, let alone make it better.   Come on Noel, cut us seniors some slack here!!!

Thanks

Bill Lombardi

 

I too loved the Virtual Jukebox for live performances.  Is this going to implemented in the future I wonder?

 

[Stefan de Vries]

On 8/14/2019 at 11:35 AM, Noel Borthwick said:

What if we never modified the project while playing from within a playlist? Would this solve the issue for you?

Virtual Jukebox would be awesome. It was great for my live shows that I could tweak each track and use midi controllers to start song, or just use the delay option to begin next song. Please bring it back.

 

[Noel Borthwick]

On 8/19/2019 at 12:15 PM, Matthew Carr said:

What would be a really helpful  addition is to allow Cakewalk to open a file in a read-only mode, perhaps via a command argument

e.g.   sonar.exe -readonly "C:\songs\my very bad song.cwp"

In read only mode, the save changes dialog would never appear, and changes would never be saved. 

Of course this could be dangerous without understanding it's meaning, but I doubt anyone would set this switch unless they knew what it did. Would be fantastic when using other programs to manage a setlist though..

(Maybe some element of the UI could change colour in read only mode, to make it obvious)

I tried using the playlist app again the other day - wasn't very successful. I send midi data to control outboard gear when I load a backing track, and having two projects open at once seems to foul this up..

This has been resolved for the next release. There is a new read only mode for the playlist.