The Problem with Modern Amp Sims?

[Old Joad]

 

[craigb]

Next video idea:  "The Problem with Having Zero Money for Gear..."

?

[Pragi]

56 minutes ago, craigb said:

Next video idea:  "The Problem with Having Zero Money for Gear..."

?

Right , also "The problem with having to much money for Gear" would be a good idea for a Video

 

[Bapu]

"The Problem With Having A Problem" is the real problem.

[kitekrazy1]

12 hours ago, craigb said:

Next video idea:  "The Problem with Having Zero Money for Gear..."

?

There's no shortage of that.

[kennywtelejazz]

When you  want the problem to go away ,  Neutralize the problem by finding a solution  that solves the problem and works for you ....

We are not all the same .

Kenny

[Byron Dickens]

A perfect example of how perfection can be the enemy of great. Also why I avoid (other people's) presets like the plague and treat the amp sim like it was a real amp, dialing it in the same way. That I save and then don't f*** with it.

Otherwise, I've largely gone back to real amps and pedals.

[hockeyjx]

I love amp sims, but I can dial in what I want pretty quick. There are some ideas that an amp sim is so much better (effect automation primarily).

As long as the actual playing is good, I can really park the guitar in to the mix. You can't dial back the distortion after a take with a mic/real amps.

One just can't get caught in the rabbit hole of presets, it is way better when you have an idea of what you want and try to execute the idea than wandering to the land of lost presets ...usually ?

Edited July 1, 2023 by hockeyjx

[craigb]

In many areas that extend far beyond this topic, I love to find presets/templates/etc. that are close to what I'm looking for and then tweak them to make them mine.

I'm a big fan of not reinventing the wheel!

Of course, once I've done my own stuff, then I prefer to start with one of my creations and tweak from that. ?

[mettelus]

4 hours ago, hockeyjx said:

As long as the actual playing is good, I can really park the guitar in to the mix. You can't dial back the distortion after a take with a mic/real amps.

+1, it took a while for me to take advantage of pulling the DI signal from guitar inputs, but one of the best advantages of amp sims allows for rapid composition with the ability to re-amp in the box (that, and you can own $50,000 in "gear" that weighs nothing, of course).

As far as presets, I finally upgraded to TH-U last Christmas, but still haven't downloaded any of the monthly presets. Presets (and samples) can be the biggest waste of time to sort through; it is often better to know how to tweak them to make them fit with what is "close enough."

I have found "in the box" a bit stifling to creativity over the years, specifically camped out near a computer. I ended up going wireless several years ago, so can go outside on the porch to play and just let the DAW be itself (why I appreciate Studio One Remote a lot). Sitting in front of a DAW (or even with the screen in view) seems to shift focus to "potential editing" rather than "just playing" for me.

[Grem]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:06 PM, mettelus said:

in view) seems to shift focus to "potential editing

Yep.

Got a song I am.working on. Guitars just not sounding right. So over several weeks I have tried different takes with pretty much the same results.  So I think maybe a delay on one would help..... next thing I know I am neck deep in fxs swaping!!

So I realized I just needed a clean take, and I can fiddle with it later. I just need to stay focused and get the elements down. 

[Xoo]

On 7/1/2023 at 8:06 PM, mettelus said:

As far as presets, I finally upgraded to TH-U last Christmas, but still haven't downloaded any of the monthly presets. Presets (and samples) can be the biggest waste of time to sort through; it is often better to know how to tweak them to make them fit with what is "close enough."

Which reminded me to check for June's preset download...argh!  Seriously, they're often useful for inspiration but there aren't many - for me at any rate - that float my boat.

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, Grem said:

So I realized I just needed a clean take, and I can fiddle with it later. I just need to stay focused and get the elements down. 

+1, I find I violate my own guidance to others at times, and one that bubbles to the top is "Draft first, then edit." Especially with longer works (music included), I get easily sucked into editing "do loops" when reviewing where I left off (terrible habit on my part). Unless a good portion of the final intended work is present, I am going to end up modifying it later anyway.

DI takes have proven themselves valuable for me, since I can simply re-amp during mixing rather than trying to shoehorn the original wet version where it doesn't quite fit.

[hockeyjx]

4 hours ago, Grem said:

Yep.

Got a song I am.working on. Guitars just not sounding right. So over several weeks I have tried different takes with pretty much the same results.  So I think maybe a delay on one would help..... next thing I know I am neck deep in fxs swaping!!

So I realized I just needed a clean take, and I can fiddle with it later. I just need to stay focused and get the elements down. 

The common technique(and cheap!) of splitting the signal in to the amp and in to the computer is "the way", IMO, for the "real" amp folks,  One gets the take they LOVE the sound of, and one they can tweak to high heaven and park right in the mix!

Edited July 3, 2023 by hockeyjx

[Grem]

1 hour ago, mettelus said:

DI takes have proven themselves valuable

 

44 minutes ago, hockeyjx said:

The common technique(and cheap!) of splitting the signal in to the amp and in to the computer

 

Yep, I have used these methods. I have a splitter when using my real amp, and have used a DI/amp sim trks also. 

Back in early 90's I was recording guitar into a ART SGX, out to (small) Yamaha board, then into tape. Simple.

I remember vividly recording a solo on a song and I kept messing up. So I redid it the max amount of times I allowed myself (I think it was four). Still wasn't satisfied.  So I did it a few more times. Still was not happy, but I had to go to work. I was not happy with the take and knew I could do better. So my plan was to continue with another take tomorrow. As life happens, it wasn't the next day, but several days before I could get back to recording.  When I went back to listen, I couldn't figure out why I disliked the take so much. It went to the final mix. I didn't redo the take.

So... I listened to that song sometime last year and decided that I am screwing around too damn much with all the options I have available to me. I am now "committing to tape" so to speak.

What I need to do now is re-learn to trust myself, and just go with it.

(And stop all that damn fiddling around when I am tracking!!)

Edited July 3, 2023 by Grem

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

This video is misleading in the sense that it's well...Clickbait.

None of the issues listed have anything to do with the amp sims themselves, but with a musician who needs to be more disciplined and learn some self-control. Just because you have all the options, doesn't mean you have to use them. And if you are one of these people which cannot control themselves you should either work on that or limit your options. When was the last time you tried to make music using just what your DAW offers instead of having to navigate through hundreds of plugins which do more of less the same thing but you have to have them because what if you just need that plugin you only opened once just to register it and have never used? It could be the right one for your current project! It's not uncommon to find people surprised to learn that their DAW has an effect of a feature they've just spent money to have but they never noticed it because they were too busy with their sea of choices.

This is also one of the reasons some people have moved away from making music in the box and migrating to DAWless setups. When you have less choices, you have to focus on making the best out of them, rather than just replacing one tool which the exact same tool, but with one control or feature that solves a specific problem, then accumulating those tools over time.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Then when every problem you have is a nail, everything starts to look like a screw.

[Byron Dickens]

41 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

None of the issues listed have anything to do with the amp sims themselves, but with a musician who needs to be more disciplined and learn some self-control.

He's far from the only one. Option paralysis seems to be a common affliction.

43 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Just because you have all the options, doesn't mean you have to use them.

Truer words were never spoken.

[craigb]

When I had my studio, I had (at least!) three mixers:  A main Mackie, and two others that fed into it (one was digital which used D/A to the Mackie as well as straight in as digital, the other gathered all of my "toys" together, like v-drums, synths, non-guitar modelers and romplers, etc.).  I would have at least two incoming lines for the guitars, one dry,  and others that came in from mic'ed cabs or tapped into the back of something (I used a lot of rack units like the Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp for example).  Needless to say, this could sometimes cause problems since splitting/duplicating the signal might not allow you the interaction with the amp that you want (and, obviously, not all amps have a dry out channel so I had to split it using other techniques - my custom Variax had the floor pedal do this natively, so that helped!).

Then there was the whole complexity of how things came back out!  Besides the ability to go to the mixing monitors, I had dedicated outputs to my PA speakers (to play the backing tracks for everyone or just me to play along with) as well as my headphone amp (my way to give everyone their own mix when needed).  Add wireless to both the inputs (vocals and guitars, bass players were required to remain tethered into a child-safe corner ?) and even the headphones sometimes, and I could play with friends.

It took a lot of initial planning (the spreadsheets used and abused are huge!), but totally worth it for me! ?

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

2 hours ago, craigb said:

When I had my studio, I had (at least!) three mixers:  A main Mackie, and two others that fed into it (one was digital which used D/A to the Mackie as well as straight in as digital, the other gathered all of my "toys" together, like v-drums, synths, non-guitar modelers and romplers, etc.).  I would have at least two incoming lines for the guitars, one dry,  and others that came in from mic'ed cabs or tapped into the back of something (I used a lot of rack units like the Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp for example).  Needless to say, this could sometimes cause problems since splitting/duplicating the signal might not allow you the interaction with the amp that you want (and, obviously, not all amps have a dry out channel so I had to split it using other techniques - my custom Variax had the floor pedal do this natively, so that helped!).

Then there was the whole complexity of how things came back out!  Besides the ability to go to the mixing monitors, I had dedicated outputs to my PA speakers (to play the backing tracks for everyone or just me to play along with) as well as my headphone amp (my way to give everyone their own mix when needed).  Add wireless to both the inputs (vocals and guitars, bass players were required to remain tethered into a child-safe corner ?) and even the headphones sometimes, and I could play with friends.

It took a lot of initial planning (the spreadsheets used and abused are huge!), but totally worth it for me! ?

Mike Bradshaw was dying to have several conversations with you...

[craigb]

19 minutes ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Mike Bradshaw was dying to have several conversations with you...

Already has! ?