How Will The Forum Handle Cakewalk Next & Sonar Products?

[Jim Fogle]

This forum currently has a header tab labeled Cakewalk by BandLab and a Cakewalk Products forum section labeled Cakewalk by BandLab.  The new BandLab entity, Cakewalk, has announced two new products, Sonar and Next, while also announcing Cakewalk by Bandlab will be depreciated once the new products are released.

The question is, how should the forum reflect these changes?

Note that you can select multiple choices.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Jim Fogle

[Teegarden]

Thanks for bringing this up, I was already wondering about it!

Since Cakewalk Sonar is the updated CbB I guess the whole forum could stay "as is" for this product. There are also plenty old paid Sonar users active on the CbB forum. Many issues are relevant for all versions. There was no need for a separate section to divide the two. Most users are and/or will be aware that new functions will only be available in the coming paid version, so it shouldn't be a big problem.
So I would just rename the Cakewalk by BandLab section to Cakewalk Sonar like one of your suggestions.

Next to that there will be an entirely new product build from the ground up, so that definitely needs it's own very clearly separated section.
 

[scook]

I am sure @Jesse Jost already has a plan

AFAIK Cakewalk has never had a beta rollout like Next

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, Sonar is essentially the next version of CbB so renaming the main CbB forum to Cakewalk Sonar makes sense. Cakewalk Next is definitely its own thing so a new forum specifically for that would be a logical idea.

[user 905133]

I am mildly inclined to take the side favoring sub-forums for the different products. For example, I can think of reasons for isolating future CbB users from being excoriated for not immediately getting a paid product. Shaming CbB-only users might be fun, but perhaps some of them might need time to add the new costs into their budgets. Maybe some won't be able to use the new version for any of a number of reasons (such as personal workflow needs, vision needs, etc.) and/or won't be able to update to the newest version as soon as it comes out.

Separate sub-forums for Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next sounds like a great idea in theory, but that is no guarantee that people will post in the right sub-form. 

Whatever happens, I will adapt. 

Peace!

[scook]

3 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Separate sub-forums for Cakewalk Sonar and Cakewalk Next sounds like a great idea in theory, but that is no guarantee that people will post in the right sub-form. 

it's a problem today

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

Separate forum section, when overdone in comparison to the amount of users and posting frequency end up alienating users, which may or may not only post in one specific section of the forums and that will generate several duplicate posts all around. Usually, the more generic you make the structure, the better it is. Another solution which is used by Image-Line but creates another problem is your software licenses determine which parts of the forum you can see and post on. Since I have a FL Studio Mobile license, for example, that's the only forum I can post to.

I feel any extension of this post for me would end up being several pictures on how the current forum structure contributes to the current level of alienation and how keeping it and just adding new sub forums for the new products would make it worse.

As mentioned before, some people often organize community forums in structures which are only condusive to work when you have tens of thousands of users, rather than a few hundreds to thousands total with less than a hundred active.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino

[Starship Krupa]

On 6/21/2023 at 3:57 PM, User 905133 said:

Shaming CbB-only users might be fun

Good lord, for whom?

I've always been kinda weirded out by people who stuck with SONAR when CbB is free and so much of an improvement (and were subsequently having problems with the years-old unsupported program), but in this case, I believe there will be plenty of people who will keep using the free product unless there is a paid version that is really inexpensive.

Whether they will also be people who actively participate in the forum remains to be seen. If anything, I'd have the impulse to shame anyone who shamed CbB stalwarts. ?

Of course there is that versionism thing where anyone, pro or volunteer, who is trying to support a program will try to convince users who are having tech issues to upgrade to the latest version to see if it helps.

How long before the first angry "I even spent my hard-earned cash on buying Cakewalk Sonar to see if it would solve the problem, and now I'm out the money as well as the time and my haptic controller still can't talk to my plug-ins?"?

[user 905133]

4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

On 6/21/2023 at 6:57 PM, User 905133 said:

Shaming CbB-only users might be fun

  Good lord, for whom?

Just to clarify any possible misinterpretation, I was not saying that to me shaming CbB-only users is fun. 

On 6/21/2023 at 6:57 PM, User 905133 said:

Shaming CbB-only users might be fun, but perhaps some of them might need time to add the new costs into their budgets. Maybe some won't be able to use the new version for any of a number of reasons (such as personal workflow needs, vision needs, etc.) and/or won't be able to update to the newest version as soon as it comes out.

As is evident by the context, I was squarely against those who tell users of older versions of SONAR/Cakewalk that they shouldn't be using older versions.  I was saying that there might be legitimate reasons why users of CbB might not opt to use either of the new products, a point to which you agree:

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

. . . in this case, I believe there will be plenty of people who will keep using the free product unless there is a paid version that is really inexpensive.

Whether they will also be people who actively participate in the forum remains to be seen. If anything, I'd have the impulse to shame anyone who shamed CbB stalwarts.  ? 

While were on the subject, obviously the other wording on the Forum's Home page also would have to be changed since Cakewalk by Bandlab and CbB are mentioned in the sub-forum descriptions:

 

Quote

• CAKEWALK PRODUCTS
  • Cakewalk by BandLab
    • Discussion focused on all things related to Cakewalk by BandLab software, the DAW formerly known as SONAR Platinum.
  • Instruments & Effects
    • Discussion focused on the use and integration of plug-in instruments and effects in Cakewalk by BandLab.
  • Feedback Loop
    • Provide feedback on features, ideas and requests for future releases of Cakewalk by BandLab.
• COMMUNITY
  • Content [Articulation Maps. ProChannel Presets, Track & Project Templates, Instrument definitions, Drum Maps. UI Themes]
    • This section is dedicated to sharing content for use in CbB. 
  • Tutorials
    • Help the community get the most out of CbB by posting links to tutorial videos and articles here. 

etc.

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify my previous post. 

 

 

[John Vere]

I vote for 1 forum for the continuing of Cakewalk/Sonar. The other app should definitely have a sub form as it will only be used by a completely different group of users. 
 There’s not that many posts here anymore so sub forums for Cakewalk/Sonar are really not needed.
I have no clue why we seem to have 2 forums for Cakewalk?
I don’t like the format of the QA forum. You can’t tell when or who the last answer was posted. And nobody ever clicks the vote thingy.
 

If they are going to redo the forum can we please just have one  main forum for Legacy Sonar/ Cakewalk by Bandlab/New Sonar.  
A big reason for keeping it this way is the collective knowledge of many users who will no doubt be using the new Sonar will be more beneficial to the people clinging to the past for many valid reasons.  Those people will then be seeing the threads about the new version and it will help them decide if the upgrade is worth it. 
Good example was when X1 came out and the forum was nothing but negative stuff about it. I stayed clear until things settled down with X3.  I doubt that will be the case this time around but for some people they will most certainly be reading this forum before they reach for that credit card.  And I’ll be one of them. 
 

Edited June 26, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, I have to agree about Q&A - the idea is good in principle but the default view makes it hard to see what's posted last, not everyone uses the rating or the upvote feature, and the main forum gets more traffic and usually more answers anyway.

There's always going to be people who post in the wrong sections though, like asking specific questions about a plugin in a product release section thread for example, but I think so long as both main products get their own forum, it'll at least help directing traffic that way and make the mods life a little easier if there's clear places threads should go rather than "well maybe the CbB forum, maybe Q&A, maybe Instruments and Effects....."

[OPunWide]

I know this is the wrong thread, but it's not worth starting a new one...
I really wish they weren't using the name Sonar.

When I Google for Cakewalk help, 90% of what shows up is for the old product. Sometimes the info still helps, but usually it ends up suggesting that there's a New Product! Since I rarely find anything useful in the new site, it's back to Google for a repeat search.

Calling it anything other than Sonar would help to avoid that in the future, assuming I'm willing to pay again for what, in some cases, I could never activate because I couldn't get access to my old account.

I know it's too late for a name change -- once Marketing makes a logo nothing gets changed.

I really like CW/Sonar, especially for the value it used to offer. I have far too many old versions of it that won't install making me hesitant to invest more. On the bright side, having CWBL did let me resurrect some of my old Sonar projects since I could install it on a new computer when the old one died.

I guess my todo list now has a lot of files to export and projects to finish before, at some point, CWBL no longer loads. It could be something as simple as a Windows update killing it if they don't plan to do any updates it in the future.

Why the end rant? CWBL has crashed 3 times today, and looking for help I found out about the new product. Learned how to submit a bug report, which requires a dump. But the dump file won't load because it's too big (yes, I compressed it) and it takes too long (on a very fast connection), so they drop the connection.

[Lord Tim]

Re: dump file, upload it to Dropbox or Google Drive and provide a link. Those things can get pretty large, depending on how much stuff is in memory at the time.

Crashing is rare and usually plugin related or there's damaged system libraries though, so while you're waiting for a reply from support, see if you can pinpoint any older 32bit plugins or problematic ones and swap them out if possible.

Support should be able to get your old products back via Cakewalk Command Centre. support@cakewalk.com

In regards to the name, there's definitely a big problem with the old site docs at the moment for sure. It looks like everything is moving over to a legacy site for the old stuff, and a whole new site is being designed for the product moving forward. Considering how much stuff is involved with the docs applying to various different products over the years, this will likely be a fairly big job and take a bit of time to get straight. I think ultimately it'll all work itself out but there's bound to be a messy interim period for a while.

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, OPunWide said:

I have far too many old versions of it that won't install making me hesitant to invest more.

Curious: when you buy a software license, do you expect to be able to keep successfully installing and running the software forever? No matter what changes are made to your operating system of choice or what happens to the company who sold you the license?

If so, IME that's not realistic.

4 hours ago, OPunWide said:

my todo list now has a lot of files to export and projects to finish before, at some point, CWBL no longer loads

At some point, it will cease to function. That happens to all software. It's a good policy to be able to transfer important projects (if you're not willing to pay to keep your version current, which, given we don't know what BandLab intend to charge for Sonar....). Usually with Windows it's safe to expect that a program will keep working for at least 5 years. If something catastrophic happens, like the parent company being dissolved (as in the case of Cakewalk, Inc.), then all bets are off.

The company that created and licensed SONAR has been gone for almost 6 years. The fact that another company stepped in and has kept their licensing server running for all this time is very fortunate, and not something that was guaranteed. I only have one product licensed by Cakewalk, Inc., the CA-2A compressor. As soon as I found out that Gibson was halting everything and dissolving the company, I made sure that I had the offline registration process set up.

My guess regarding your current crash issue is the same as Tim's: misbehaving plug-in. Given that you seem to be attached to trying to keep using very old software, my suspicion is that there is a plug-in or two that aren't playing nice with CbB. CbB still supports use of 32-bit plug-ins, but any plug-in that hasn't been updated by the manufacturer to 64-bit is now long out of date and no longer supported by the manufacturer. Plug-in hosting is the most difficult task a DAW or NLE can do, and it's asking a lot of CbB to play nice with older 32-bit plug-ins.

If you're inclined, the thing to do to sort it out is to switch off plug-ins one at a time until you find the one(s) that are not getting along. Then substitute something newer.

[Jim Fogle]

@JohnnyV,

Quote

can we please just have one  main forum for Legacy Sonar/ Cakewalk by Bandlab/New Sonar.

I think this is a great idea.  I hope the forum moderators take note.