simon Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Release date 22nd June. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 This update looks to be pretty significant. I am a little disappointed that they didn't demonstrate the unmix components specifically, but a few of the operations they did were done by that (pulling the drum track apart). The processing time in 9 is significant when working with master tracks as it is. I certainly have enough material to stress test this guy on once the demo is available. Also makes me curious if they have a free 9 to 10 upgrade window for the folks that have been asking about this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 It’s using improved Hybrid Transformer Demucs for stem unmixing, so hopefully it will be better at this than RX. In a nutshell, bye-bye RipX - you’re out of the game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, mettelus said: Also makes me curious if they have a free 9 to 10 upgrade window for the folks that have been asking about this. There was a grace period update for SL 9 last year https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/115001891190-How-to-verify-eligibility-for-free-Grace-Period-update hopefully there will be one this year too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Marina said: It’s using improved Hybrid Transformer Demucs for stem unmixing, so hopefully it will be better at this than RX. In a nutshell, bye-bye RipX - you’re out of the game Knowing these companies, they'll probably not use hardware acceleration, which means your unmixing will be even slower, as Demucs is more hardware intensive. Quality is a bit better than Spleeter but you still don't have the high content above 17k because Demucs also uses the MusDB dataset with some extra songs added into the training. The two mashups I posted in the forum were done using Demucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) According to author ”Not at release (the bench I posted is CPU-only), but the next patch will add NVIDIA/AMD/Intel HD Graphics/Apple CoreML” https://forums.steinberg.net/t/spectralayers-10/846749/57 Edited June 21, 2023 by Marina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Marina said: According to author ”Not at release (the bench I posted is CPU-only), but the next patch will add NVIDIA/AMD/Intel HD Graphics/Apple CoreML” https://forums.steinberg.net/t/spectralayers-10/846749/57 "Where possible" in this case means they'll either not add any hardware acceleration or only support CUDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: "Where possible" in this case means they'll either not add any hardware acceleration or only support CUDA. Hmm. Let’s see how will software developer respond to your question there. Though better results in stem separation even at the expense of more processing time is worth it for me, because I’m using the feature mostly for post work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Marina said: Hmm. Let’s see how will software developer respond to your question there. Though better results in stem separation even at the expense of more processing time is worth it for me, because I’m using the feature mostly for post work. I've used both Spleeter and Demucs and Demucs delivers slightly better quality separation mostly because it has more training data rather than the specific algorithm used. You're still gonna lose all content above 11-17k because it still uses the MusDB dataset. As per responding to my post there, I doubt they will offer any explanation as to what they'll do. I know iZotope has no plans of supporting hardware acceleration for RX because I asked. Edited June 21, 2023 by Bruno de Souza Lino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lobel Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 (edited) Hi @Bruno de Souza Lino, SpectraLayers developer here - to answer your questions: -The improved Hybrid Transformer Demucs implementation in SL10 is pretty fast - actually faster than the Spleeter implementation in previous versions of SL. On a macbook air M1, using CPU to unmix 45sec of stereo audio it takes: -20sec on SL9 -15sec on SL10 in Fast mode (which is much higher quality than SL9) -30sec on SL10 in Balanced mode -45sec on SL10 in Best mode -You were wondering about frequencies above 17k. Here's a screenshot of a song unmixed in SL10. As you can see, no issues above 17k: -Concerning future hardware acceleration, it'll likely be based on DirectML (on Windows) which allows support for NVIDIA, AMD and Intel HD Graphics GPUs, and on CoreML on macOS. I've already done some tests with those accelerators, but did not judge them stable enough for the launch date. Hopefully the situation will be better in a couple months. I added "where possible" because I know some hardware accelerator such as CoreML can't support all kind of AI nodes, so all AIs may not benefit from CoreML acceleration. And I also had some crash with DirectML on some AI models, so let see what will be the situation in a couple months... Edited June 21, 2023 by Robin Lobel 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Thanks for the direct feedback Robin! We don't get that in here too often anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Robin Lobel said: Hi @Bruno de Souza Lino, SpectraLayers developer here - to answer your questions: -The improved Hybrid Transformer Demucs implementation in SL10 is pretty fast - actually faster than the Spleeter implementation in previous versions of SL. On a macbook air M1, using CPU to unmix 45sec of stereo audio it takes: -20sec on SL9 -15sec on SL10 in Fast mode (which is much higher quality than SL9) -30sec on SL10 in Balanced mode -45sec on SL10 in Best mode -You were wondering about frequencies above 17k. Here's a screenshot of a song unmixed in SL10. As you can see, no issues above 17k: -Concerning future hardware acceleration, it'll likely be based on DirectML (on Windows) which allows support for NVIDIA, AMD and Intel HD Graphics GPUs, and on CoreML on macOS. I've already done some tests with those accelerators, but did not judge them stable enough for the launch date. Hopefully the situation will be better in a couple months. I added "where possible" because I know some hardware accelerator such as CoreML can't support all kind of AI nodes, so all AIs may not benefit from CoreML acceleration. And I also had some crash with DirectML on some AI models, so let see what will be the situation in a couple months... Now you have my interest, because usually whenever the terms "hardware acceleration" are mentioned, it's usually yet another software jumping into the CUDA bandwagon because of supposed widespread support or because nVidia decided it wants to care about that particular piece of software because of rea$ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNate Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 This is the best update they've had in years, especially the stuff surrounding vocal cleanup, multi-speaker separation and vocal transcription (the latter of which really needs to come to WaveLab Pro). However, it's a bit odd that they still haven't released an AudioUnits plug-in for ARA2. If the upgrade wasn't 20% cheaper than usual, I'm not quite sure if I would have purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, iNate said: This is the best update they've had in years, especially the stuff surrounding vocal cleanup, multi-speaker separation and vocal transcription (the latter of which really needs to come to WaveLab Pro). However, it's a bit odd that they still haven't released an AudioUnits plug-in for ARA2. If the upgrade wasn't 20% cheaper than usual, I'm not quite sure if I would have purchased. Actually the update price increased comparing to 2022. In 2022 SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 7 / 6 was 79.99. Now a SL Pro 9 to 10 update costs the same amount and the update from SpectraLayers Pro 6/7/8 to 10 is 99,99 which I find to be quite an increase of price (25% more). So Steinberg’s sales department have probably made a faux pas by increasing the update price and many SpectraLayers Pro 8 license owners will be waiting for Black Friday. Thankfully grace period update voucher is automatically triggered by the system after using an activation code purchased during Steinberg’s May sale when SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 (which becomes a SpectraLayers Pro 10 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 if activation code is used during today’s release) was only 47.99. Steinberg’s SpectraLayers discounts during new version launch were actually a good thing for us customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I am not sure how long it takes for them to get a trail version available, but planning to wait to run that. There are a few posts already complaining about older CPU performance and some of the algorithms, so I actually want to run this on real (not cherry-picked) material before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteven Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 My upgrade price from 9 Pro to 10 Pro is $79.99 Don't think that this is an intro price (no info if is or not). The question is if I'm not going to immediately use it should I hold off hoping for a sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, TheSteven said: The question is if I'm not going to immediately use it should I hold off hoping for a sale? Yeah, that is not an intro price, so if not going to use it immediately, it should go on sale at some point (usually $49.99). While it does have some features that are nice to haves, the core features I am going to use I need to test first. There are only 3 videos out so far (all by Steinberg) and some of the 9 vs 10 comparisons on core functionality weren't that spectacularly different (pun intended). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I'll wait until DirectML happens, then I might take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, TheSteven said: My upgrade price from 9 Pro to 10 Pro is $79.99 Don't think that this is an intro price (no info if is or not). The question is if I'm not going to immediately use it should I hold off hoping for a sale? Exactly, there are no more introductory discounts since version 10. On your place I’d wait for a BF sale when price drops to less than $50. IMO that will send the right message to seller for the price increase (the missing intro sale). Edited June 22, 2023 by Marina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNate Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 19 hours ago, Marina said: Actually the update price increased comparing to 2022. In 2022 SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 7 / 6 was 79.99. Now a SL Pro 9 to 10 update costs the same amount and the update from SpectraLayers Pro 6/7/8 to 10 is 99,99 which I find to be quite an increase of price (25% more). So Steinberg’s sales department have probably made a faux pas by increasing the update price and many SpectraLayers Pro 8 license owners will be waiting for Black Friday. Thankfully grace period update voucher is automatically triggered by the system after using an activation code purchased during Steinberg’s May sale when SpectraLayers Pro 9 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 (which becomes a SpectraLayers Pro 10 Update from SpectraLayers Pro 8 if activation code is used during today’s release) was only 47.99. Steinberg’s SpectraLayers discounts during new version launch were actually a good thing for us customers. No. the upgrade price from 9 to 10 is $79.99. The price last year from 8-9 was $99.99. The price from 7-9 was $129.99. The prices have decreased across the board... Those are not intro prices. Those are the prices. It's ~20% cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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