Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[Keni]

27 minutes ago, Larioso said:

Yet another idea apart from Artist, Pro and Platinum like before.

 

You have Sonar

- as raw as daw comes without most exclusive plugins and synths and content overall

and Sonar Suite

- with all the bling-bling

 

A lot of software has this approach. PowerDirector, Magix Independence etc.

 

And easy to target different price points.

 With all that bling I would call it Sonar Sweet!

[Graham Rhodes]

Lord Tim wrote

"That's an entirely different company who no longer exists, so I guess you need to ask Gibson about that rather than Bandlab."

The comment has validity, but the fact is that Bandlab acquired Intellectual Property from Gibson., so it is the terms of that acquisition which determine any liabilities to licensees of that IP, not the fact that Gibson dumped it. It is not uncommon, and in most cases the norm, for an acquirer to, say, take over responsibilities like ongoing service agreements. Your point is valid in that there probably aren't any. Gibson have zero responsibility since the sale agreement would have negated any such obligations.

What is interesting is where someone has a perpetual licence, as that right exists  whether of not the grantor is still in existence. Ihave the right to use all my Sonar and related products (frozen in time) as long as I wish.

It seems to me that if Bandlab have a set of Sonar users it would be dumb just to dump them, or they have thrown away an open goal sales opportunity. What matters now is how they price any conversion, and weigh jam today against future money. IMHO if they had any sense they would not simply drive them away; Ableton and co would just be rubbing their hands in disbelief.

PS I have a image  on my screen of a floppy disc labelled "Cakewalk Professional for Windows 2.01 /  Copyright Gregg Hendershott 1987 - 1994. I bought this in 1992 when I was in Boston MA, and have used it ever since - strewth 31 years ! I'd be slightly sad to be driven elsewhere.

[NOLAGuy]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:50 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

>>"Annual" means no expiry / no deactivation after one year,   just no further free updates after the year, right?

Exactly. We were one of the few companies offering this model even in the SONAR days. How it works is you either pay for 12 consecutive monthly subs OR you purchase a one year subscription upfront. In both scenarios the last months version is permanently unlocked for you and you own it.  This is essentially no different than buying an annual version of the software outright. Many people who dislike subscription are unaware that we always did this.

Also, an advantage of monthly subscription was that once you crossed the 12 month boundary you could continue consecutive monthly subs for however long as you want and you would always own the last version you paid for.

All subs are not bad and are actually better for some people who prefer paying in smaller increments. So definitely read the fine print.

Disclaimer: To be clear I'm not saying that this is going to be our model. We're still very much working out the details here. I was quoting how it was done in the SONAR days and saying not all subscription schemes are the same. 

 

That model would be definitely better than how my subscriptions for TV streaming work. If I stop paying the $17/month to Netflix, then I can no longer watch Netflix. Same with other television, Internet subscription content providers, and "use all our plugins for a monthly subscription" like Slate. The key for me would be to keep the monthly fee low, e.g. if the monthly subscription was $15, that would be the same as a $160/annual "upgrade" fee. And if the model offers a discounted upfront fee for less than $$/mo x 12 months, that could benefit Bandlab relating to the costs of monthly processing as well as save us some annual out-of-pocket cost.

[Keni]

18 minutes ago, Panda said:

Lord Tim wrote

"That's an entirely different company who no longer exists, so I guess you need to ask Gibson about that rather than Bandlab."

The comment has validity, but the fact is that Bandlab acquired Intellectual Property from Gibson., so it is the terms of that acquisition which determine any liabilities to licensees of that IP, not the fact that Gibson dumped it. It is not uncommon, and in most cases the norm, for an acquirer to, say, take over responsibilities like ongoing service agreements. Your point is valid in that there probably aren't any. Gibson have zero responsibility since the sale agreement would have negated any such obligations.

What is interesting is where someone has a perpetual licence, as that right exists  whether of not the grantor is still in existence. Ihave the right to use all my Sonar and related products (frozen in time) as long as I wish.

It seems to me that if Bandlab have a set of Sonar users it would be dumb just to dump them, or they have thrown away an open goal sales opportunity. What matters now is how they price any conversion, and weigh jam today against future money. IMHO if they had any sense they would not simply drive them away; Ableton and co would just be rubbing their hands in disbelief.

PS I have a image  on my screen of a floppy disc labelled "Cakewalk Professional for Windows 2.01 /  Copyright Gregg Hendershott 1987 - 1994. I bought this in 1992 when I was in Boston MA, and have used it ever since - strewth 31 years ! I'd be slightly sad to be driven elsewhere.

Yes, you're correct in that it really depends on the terms of their' deal. Such as maintaining the Old Sonar Products library for existing Sonar owners. Bandlab took that over. Gibson no longer tied to it in that way if any...

 

Very cool having the old floppy.... I might have some of them floating around too as I saved everything but can I find it? Too many moves to make that easy if even possible... ?

I started using it back then too... Cakewalk for Windows (1.0)

 

[Misha]

"Those old Gibson-era products still work though, so in effect anyone who bought the licenses back in the day still can use those products"

But they will still require a "server" to activate and I believe would still de-activate in 6 months!   Dear Bakers, seems you are tight lipped on this one....  Why not unlock legacy Gibson versions for those who might need them for archival purposes,  and discontinue/retire  these gracefully?  New kids will either buy/rent or steal new products. Why keep these older 2018 versions caged? 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

5 hours ago, Byron Dickens said:

What part of "the people who work on the DAW don't create the website" is so hard to understand?

Last time I checked, I was just likening one situation to the other as a display of me questioning the assurance I should trust them with graphics, seeing as the old logo didn't have this issue.

[Misha]

Lord Tim.

"Noel mentioned earlier in this thread that they had plans that if anything..." 

That "anything" is about to happen, as it is official:

"Will Cakewalk by BandLab be discontinued? Yes, eventually. We will continue providing community support and maintenance for Cakewalk by BandLab until Cakewalk Sonar becomes publicly available. "

I am not saying give these older Gibson versions away.  I am asking to unlock these for those folks who paid for them.  So they do not require "servers" or any other bologna with expiring  "activation" after 6 month. 

[sjoens]

For those worried about an all vector GUI, you can download Mixcraft 10 demo and check it out. It's  GUI now uses all svg files and it DOES look better.

My only issue ATM may be how difficult it is to create usable svg files.  I can create them just fine but MX10 doesn't want to display any of the ones I've edited. It also seems there are variants in the svg  format.

[Sheds]

Quote

On 6/6/2023 at 9:25 AM, Carlos Iglesias said:

Won't they fall into the subscription error again? with Gibson it did not work.

I hope not.

 

[Bruno de Souza Lino]

12 minutes ago, sjoens said:

For those worried about an all vector GUI, you can download Mixcraft 10 demo and check it out. It's  GUI now uses all svg files and it DOES look better.

My concern is not so much with how it looks, but how it will perform. At least in my experience, as soon as the words "vector UI" and "4k" appear in interface discussion, sooner or later you end up losing your space to the interface and you sure can scale it as promised, except you can't scale it down properly or at all. Or the scaling down is a mere act of making the text smaller instead of everything. Then you end with slightly more screen state at all coupled with text you can barely read.

And I did download Mixcraft 10 to see it and, see for yourself. This is the default scaling on a 1440x900 display:

And, yet another thing I mentioned. I can't make the interface smaller either:

At least the interface doesn't seem to be any less responsive than it should be, but I've never used the software. Although it takes about a second for menus to open after I clicked them.

And this is Dorico 5 once you start opening stuff to do things. This one doesn't have any scaling options or they only exist in the paid versions:

As long as we don't end with these "Fisher Price" style interfaces where everything is so big and robs you of your screen space, things should be fine.

[Patrick Wichrowski]

3 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

My concern is not so much with how it looks, but how it will perform. At least in my experience, as soon as the words "vector UI" and "4k" appear in interface discussion, sooner or later you end up losing your space to the interface and you sure can scale it as promised, except you can't scale it down properly or at all. Or the scaling down is a mere act of making the text smaller instead of everything. Then you end with slightly more screen state at all coupled with text you can barely read.

And I did download Mixcraft 10 to see it and, see for yourself. This is the default scaling on a 1440x900 display:

And, yet another thing I mentioned. I can't make the interface smaller either:

At least the interface doesn't seem to be any less responsive than it should be, but I've never used the software. Although it takes about a second for menus to open after I clicked them.

And this is Dorico 5 once you start opening stuff to do things. This one doesn't have any scaling options or they only exist in the paid versions:

As long as we don't end with these "Fisher Price" style interfaces where everything is so big and robs you of your screen space, things should be fine.

That with scale that does not go to 50% is a problem. Luckly I have some plugins that have a huge UI size, but I can scale to 75%.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Patrick Wichrowski

[John Vere]

What I'm not understanding is the worrying about the Gibson activations??   Other than Splat, all old Sonar version do not need the internet or any on line activations. As well as all the add on's.  I can install any of that old stuff off line from my back up copies of all the software and plug ins. I have all my serial numbers and registration codes. I have all the installers. If you haven't backed all your stuff up from your account I have no pity for you on the day the Music Dies.  So don't complain about servers anymore, you don't need them. Store it locally. 

The big question still unanswered is the same as for Splat, will they unlock CbB so those who don't wish to upgrade can carry on.  

Edited June 9, 2023 by JohnnyV

[Misha]

"old Sonar version do not need the internet or any on line activations."

That is not true. Serial is not enough to activate it.  For offline activation, you are still dependent on Bandlab's server that generates DAT file for offline activation for these last 2017 versions. 

-----

"The big question still unanswered is the same as for Splat, will they unlock CbB so those who don't wish to upgrade can carry on. "

+1

[Wickham]

Hello from Finland!

This is great!

I`m an old Sonar(platinum)user. I´m interested  can I still use my Sonar/Cakewalk  by BL system safely.?

All my many plugins from several manufaturers have worked extremely well in my present version!(the latest)

When  can you tell something about prices?

Best regards

Markku

 

[chris.r]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:57 PM, Alan Tubbs said:

Yet cakewalk by Bandlab will remain free even after another update.  It should be good to go for as long as the OS updates work with it. until they will pull their plug out (speaking about the 6 months time-out).

corrected for you  

Edited June 9, 2023 by chris.r

[chris.r]

11 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Totally get that people are going to see it as they're going to see it though, and moving to a paid model may make some people move on - I think that's fine and expected. Nobody really knows what deal it'll be going forward, what goodies we'll get, if anything will be free as an incentive... it's all basically speculation for now, so rather than worrying about if the sky is falling, I'd personally hold tight and wait to see what's going to happen and then make a decision. There's been a lot of goodwill over the years, so it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I'm optimistic.

For me personally, it makes no sense to go elsewhere to another paid product that I have to learn as well as I do Cakewalk, no backwards compatibility with my old projects, etc. just because I have to pay for this one. If I'm going to pay for anything, I'd like to pay for something that's going to be the easiest transition for me so I can just get the hell on with getting my work done.

In my opinion best approach would be to keep Cakewalk Sonar in it's base form (as CbB is now) free and supported for those who aren't making money from doing music or are on tight budget, and then start adding new features and content in higher tiers for those who want to pay for it. Best of both worlds.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

17 hours ago, Alan Tubbs said:

And the new Sonar, stripped down or for owners of previous or paid versions maybe  $100.  Maybe $200 for new users if it includes some starter native effects.  The pc eq is great, the 1176 is usable and the ssl buss is great and as good as you are going to find natively.

what do you think will work?

Having built up a collection of preffered 3rd party plugins over many years I don't ideally want anything bundled with it as I would never use it, so the option to have it bare bones as possible would be prefereable . Same goes with the bundled instruments which are merely adequate at best, anyone with a basic version of Kontakt will have a much higher quality selection to choose from.   

[Mahmut Hürkan Çelikkanat]

I am a registered user till Sonar 2.0. I bought Cakewalk Sonar Platinum "lifetime update". (It was a huge disapoinment) And now using CbB. And i like it, i use to make my productions with it. 

"If you're not paying for a product, you're the product!" That's why i dont like such a Business plans.  I am very happy to see that there will be a paid version of Cakewalk. This is how sustainability is ensured. I want updates, bug fixes, new features,  ask my problems about software freely... ...etc.

But, a big but to justify my arguments;

1-There are lots of good DAWs around, for example Studio One.  I like it but i dont want to change my UX. Cakewalk must maintain my expectations.

2-Price  / performance ratio must be competitive. (Cheaper than Studio One ...) ?

3-Different payment methods should be offered (subscription / single payments for big updates / One time purchase ...)

4-Additional features not found elsewhere. (Cloud storage,  sample - loop libraries, new enstruments and effects....)

5-Yes, a little jest for old Sonar users. (may be %15 - 20 discount....) ?

 

Yes, those are my feelings about your new way.

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Mahmut Hürkan Çelikkanat

[Alan Tubbs]

Chris,

Maybe if one can’t scrounge up a little cash for 5 years worth of free updates to what was a free program you can find a better deal somewhere else.  BandLab doesn’t owe anybody a free DAW forever and I’m grateful they’ve kept cakewalk going.
 

 That being said, BandLab should have a cheap, clean version for the benefit of future customers or those that have plenty of fx and synths.  Maybe for the destitute they can provide a crippled-up version with only a dozen audio tracks or so.  The first DAW I bought was Plasma, an early cakewalk looper Daw.  I got a crippled copy out of one of the European mags.  I upgraded from that version until CbB today.  
 

Quite  frankly, I’m not too interested in paying for someone else’s software.  However, don’t mind helping BandLab expand their paying base which helps everybody who uses the software.  
 

But the more I think about it the more I figure you are right.  CbB needs to end at some point because far too many would be customers will stick with a free version rather than paying to upgrade.  Of course bandlab should give a long lead time before they close CbB and plenty of warning so any one could save up for Sonar or find a cheaper DAW.Another reason to keep the basic Sonar cheap.
 

Mark, 

 

I said a stripped down version.  My interpretation of stripped down means none of the more expensive software add ons like synths and melodyne and such.  I thought that was clear.  Did it not read that way to you?

[Will.]

4 hours ago, chris.r said:

In my opinion best approach would be to keep Cakewalk Sonar in it's base form (as CbB is now) free and supported for those who aren't making money from doing music or are on tight budget, and then start adding new features and content in higher tiers for those who want to pay for it. Best of both worlds.

Thats why CbB is coming out with its final update. This will be the last update to the free Daw you are using now. Sonar will be the DAW that will continue to be worked on and get new features every year. This has been said and explained numerous times. 

Cakewalk by Bandlab (the free DAW) will continue to work and be free with it getting its last and final update. 

Sonar will be the DAW that will be priced. It is the one putting on its makeup and glitters for its launch soon. 

Next is the "newborn" DAW that was created from scratch. The baby of Cakewalk and Sonar. It cant yet hold its head up straight by itself, that is why a few members will be selected to test it out before its public release. 

Read the announcement and website people.