Introducing Cakewalk Next and our new brand identity

[Gswitz]

Updated version of rapture with a thread for each voice? 

[Noel Borthwick]

1 hour ago, Alan Tubbs said:

Next - I’m not sure what it is.  A step up from the free Bandlab software? Maybe pay.  Hopefully you can use it on the Mac so cakewalk can have an in there.

Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.
The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 
While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application.

[chris.r]

1 hour ago, Alan Tubbs said:

One also has to figure in how much time and cuss jar fees are involved in learning a new DAW.  If you get older such becomes a real time suck.  I can barely find time here at home to work on music.  I certainly don’t want to spend that time re-wiring my brain when I could be creating.  And at this stage of my life I can afford money over time and whatever Cake charges doesn’t touch the hardware here at home...

I hear that is a big reason for a group of oldtimers now being more active, ready to pay whatever money is needed just for keeping things like in the old days, now that would make sense. Wondering what part of the overall userbase would that be. I see a lot of the newer users, since the free Cakewalk, are already confused whether they should stay or jump onto something else, free or cheap. And that's even before any details regarding the price are given. As for me I know I won't have steady income.

Edited June 8, 2023 by chris.r

[backwoods]

noel I cant access my legacy cakewalk account to retrieve old products. foprgotten password and reset emails arent hitting my account. any ideas?

[scook]

2 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application.

When is the ETA for the Next beta

[Light Grenade]

1 minute ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.
The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 
While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

In the interim, interested users are welcome to request beta access if you want hands-on experience with the application.

This sounds exactly like I hoped it would. Great news.

Although I really like Cakewalk for traditional recording and mixing, I've never found it the most intuitive to create electronic pieces from the ground up. I tend to use Bitwig 16 track to get an idea out of my head onto the computer.

Will certainly be giving Next a try. 

[Will.]

Raster vs Vector. 

[Noel Borthwick]

9 minutes ago, scook said:

When is the ETA for the Next beta

Next beta has been active for several months in internal beta. We're now opening it up for limited public access. People who signed up should gradually get invites.
We need to load balance it so we aren't overwhelmed initially...

[Noel Borthwick]

16 minutes ago, backwoods said:

noel I cant access my legacy cakewalk account to retrieve old products. foprgotten password and reset emails arent hitting my account. any ideas?

backwoods I suggest you contact BandLab support. I don't really have access to all that data. If you have a migrated SSO account they may be able to help you. Old unmigrated accounts are a different story.

[Keni]

3 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

I think most of us still don't realize that the relationship has completely changed.

When the programs are free/free, what is created is a participatory, collaborative community, where everyone seeks the same end, which is the constant improvement of the program.

The company, unilaterally, which is its full right, will change this relationship.

It's kind of like a marriage where the couple owns a joint business and one of them files for divorce but wants to keep the business.

The relationship changes completely. It is no longer partnership/collaboration, but consumption with completely different relationship rules where even that affectionate codename (BAKERS) no longer makes sense.

Maybe to some degree, but I’ve been working with The Bakers since back in the day of Greg H. And they have always been the most in touch team I’ve ever worked with!

It was never a partnership though we have been contributors due to the team's willingness to listen and desire to improve.

They were every bit as in touch with their user base then as they are now!

 

[Alan Tubbs]

37 minutes ago, chris.r said:

I hear this is the main reason for a group of oldtimers now being more active, ready to pay whatever money is needed just for keeping things like in the old days, now that would make sense. Wondering what part of the overall userbase would that be. I see a lot of the newer users, since the free Cakewalk, are already confused whether they should stay or jump onto something else, free or cheap. And that's even before any details regarding the price are given.

The whole point of having it free was to create new users.  Bandlab never said they were going to provide the a world class DAW for free for ever.  Yet cakewalk by Bandlab will remain free even after another update.  It should be good to go for as long as the OS updates work with it.  And Next seems a next logical step for any new users.  I’m actually stoked to see it and hope it is somewhat like P5.  I loved that software.

And the reason I use Sonar here at home is it works for me naturally.  In the early aughts I tried out the various DAWS and liked Cakewalks look and flow.  It needed to pc back then for home - couldn’t afford a Mac.  I’ve stuck with it since and thru the change to Sonar  (that was a major change in look and flow).  The only DAW I liked better was P5.

it sounds like the new Bandlab’s DAWs will have most people covered.  

[Misha]

I had been a fan of Cakewalk for over 20 years.  I had very mixed feelings about the news.  Here is what it boiled down for me.

I absolutely believe in supporting a company that makes software I enjoy using.  However, what bothers me the most is ability to go back to older projects in foreseeable future.  5-10 years from now if  "something" happens to Bandlab. The only way to insure that I will be able to do that is by having unlocked license stored locally.  The one that would not "expire" and will not require any servers to re-activate at a later time. 

To show good faith,  Bandlab should unlock last patched version of CwB, even if it will not be supported after the release of Sonar/Next.   If that is completely off the table, unlock permanently versions purchased under Gibson.

[Adam Brannon]

14 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Has any representative from Bandlab actually described Sonar as such? I've seen "High DPI support" and "vector graphics" but i have not seen "scalable". Just tempering our expectations here.

Besides music, I also work with photography and graphic arts.  Vector Graphics = Scalable. They are one in the same. Raster or bitmapped graphics are not. They are a collection of dots per inch (DPI) that create an image. The larger you zoom the image, the more pixelated they get. Vector graphics use point to point calculations and draw lines between points. No matter the zoom rate, it is still a line between points. No pixelation. The new 'vector graphics' UI will mean that the interface will be clear and sharp regardless of zoom, scale or size.

[Magic Russ]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Next is a completely new DAW designed from the ground up by us over the last five years. It was developed to be cross platform and works equally well on Mac and PC with full AU and VST support.
The focus so far has been on creation centric features as opposed to the more production centric features that Sonar has.
For example, it has very intuitive lyrics entry and song arrangements, a built in sampler and pad controller which is quite powerful, allowing you to set up sampler or instrument pads. 
While Next might look visually similar to the online web based BandLab Studio that's only because we followed branding guidelines. It has full integration with the BandLab ecosystem with integrated browsing of BandLab loops as well as upload and download to the BandLab library. The product itself is quite deep and includes many of the bells and whistles Cakewalk users have come to expect, like multiprocessor support, background plugin scanning and flexible routing. Routing is very simplified and elegant in Next and can all be done via track folders (unlike Sonar). There are many more exciting features coming in future roadmaps. I'm sure in the upcoming weeks Jesse will post more information about Next.

Since you are describing Next as a creation environment and Sonar as a production environment, it seems that you might have a number of users who decide to do creation work in Next and move production work to another environment, such as Sonar.   Can we expect that Next will include appropriate export options?

[Larioso]

Yet another idea apart from Artist, Pro and Platinum like before.

 

You have Sonar

- as raw as daw comes without most exclusive plugins and synths and content overall

and Sonar Suite

- with all the bling-bling

 

A lot of software has this approach. PowerDirector, Magix Independence etc.

 

And easy to target different price points.

[Jesse Jost]

2 minutes ago, Magic Russ said:

Since you are describing Next as a creation environment and Sonar as a production environment, it seems that you might have a number of users who decide to do creation work in Next and move production work to another environment, such as Sonar.   Can we expect that Next will include appropriate export options?

Yes, there is a plan for project interchange. 

[Adam Brannon]

5 hours ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Unless Bandlab has come up with some magical way to display vector images at runtime with zero overhead, there's no way you're not causing extra resource usage by using vectors instead of raster graphics, especially considering the monitors we use cannot display pure vectors.

Looking at this absolute masterful piece of job, I have my doubts:

 

How about actually using the graphic you are trying to misrepresent? The PNG at the top of the forum page is fully scalable as shown in the attachment. Note, the image is also part transparent, so click on it to see it as it is meant to be viewed. Just as clean at most any zoom level.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Adam Brannon

[Magic Russ]

Sorry, just had to ask because there wasn't one with P5.

[Larioso]

26 minutes ago, Adam Brannon said:

Besides music, I also work with photography and graphic arts.  Vector Graphics = Scalable. They are one in the same. Raster or bitmapped graphics are not. They are a collection of dots per inch (DPI) that create an image. The larger you zoom the image, the more pixelated they get. Vector graphics use point to point calculations and draw lines between points. No matter the zoom rate, it is still a line between points. No pixelation. The new 'vector graphics' UI will mean that the interface will be clear and sharp regardless of zoom, scale or size.

Isn't there also very little that has to be vectorized

- there are a lot of surfaces that are filled with a texture brush, dialogs and panels, toolbars and such

- left is fonts, size of fields in dialogs, borders and windows controls which probably scale

- most of that was in windows 3.x already, if called dialog units apart from pixels, that could be scaled to pixels depending on dpi of screen

 

Icon images need to be vectorized I assume. Track icons and such.

 

You don't need to vectorize it all, as some comments seem to suggest. Like what you see is a video frame and that has to be vectorized and then scaled, which is not the case.

[Jesse Jost]

No need to get sidetracked in the details of UI implementation. TLDR; we're making a scalable GUI for Sonar that will present clearly at any resolution and scale. The design itself is also getting a facelift. We'll share previews later when there's something substantial to show. In the meantime, we are acutely focused on oh-so-much-to-do!