kennywtelejazz Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, pwalpwal said: topic subject was too long so no opinion ?♂️ ? ?la la la la la la la la la la la ?ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ?e e e e e ya e e e e e Kenny Edited May 22, 2023 by kennywtelejazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: The DAW is for recording, not for composing. Interesting. There are a lot of people who consider their digital audio workstations to be composition tools. I'm one of them. Were you using yours as a compositional tool and had bad things happen as a result? I'm curious as to what you consider the pitfall(s) to be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban Villanova Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said: Interesting. There are a lot of people who consider their digital audio workstations to be composition tools. I'm one of them. Were you using yours as a compositional tool and had bad things happen as a result? I'm curious as to what you consider the pitfall(s) to be. Yes, I was composing from muscle memory and not musical imagination. With pen and paper there's the music in my mind and the page. When you write with VSTi's you end up writing for the samples you've got instead of them playing the music you made. Notation also gives you an overview of the harmony, voice leading structure, timbre, and motivic development that a piano roll cannot provide. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilvan Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 EmEntão, quando uma daw me dá a possibilidade de escrever partitura eu estou compondo, quando você escreve uma arranjo de bateria você está compondo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno de Souza Lino Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 17 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: The DAW is for recording, not for composing. Stretching that logic further, you should never play your instrument in that context, as instruments are for performance, not for composing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban Villanova Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bruno de Souza Lino said: Stretching that logic further, you should never play your instrument in that context, as instruments are for performance, not for composing. Performance and composition are different activities that require different mentalities. If it wasn't the case, we wouldn't have career composers or performers. If you're making music with few instruments going straight to DAW makes sense, but if you need to orchestrate or arrange something more complex, you're going to need to notate. Anyways, I don't care about theoretical assumptions or logic stretching, I was just responding to OP. Everything is IMHO, YMMV, yadda yadda... Edit: just to clear things out, the process I'm trying now is: Imagine music, sketch music on paper, flesh out arrangement on paper (could change to notation later), move to DAW and record/program each instrument reading what I wrote. This way I'm not composing to my sample libraries, nor to my limitations as a piano player. Edited May 22, 2023 by Esteban Villanova 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esteban Villanova Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Gilvan said: EmEntão, quando uma daw me dá a possibilidade de escrever partitura eu estou compondo, quando você escreve uma arranjo de bateria você está compondo. Si amigo, pero componer para UN instrumento no es lo mismo que para un ensamble o una orquesta. La partitura te da una imagen de TODO el arreglo que un piano roll no te puede dar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 19 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: The DAW is for recording, not for composing. There is some validity to this comment, and let me explain context. Until about 5 years ago, and old friend was still using a 4-track to record, and what was on those was pure tracking performance (vast majority was one take for guitar/vocals, drums and bass were programmed into a machine). During the discussion, his advice to me was "Don't track anything until you have the composition fleshed out." My advice back to him regarding a DAW was "Don't get caught up in an editing loop for something you can re-track 100 times faster." He already thought that way, but I cautioned him not to lose that skill. Using a DAW for composition is almost required for instruments that go through a DAW anyway (i.e. the instrument is a VSTi), but I have noticed a good break point for myself is to stop when to a demo mode, take a break, then start a new project for the final version. A lot can happen during that break, and starting a new project puts the focus on performance rather than editing (but I do bring in tracks from the old project that I am not going to perform... drums and bass almost 100%, same as him). Ironically, when I got Melodyne he sent me a 7+ minute master and wanted me to change one note. I laughed and told him 1) Melodyne is not a miracle worker and 2) sometimes performance and composition differ (which is good)... the only person who doesn't see that as a perfectly acceptable accidental is you ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmx Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: The DAW is for recording, not for composing. I would disagree. One example is the Chord Track feature in Cubase. I've written many tunes or developed ideas using that alone. Any daw can inspire or aid in the creative process of composition. Recording can happen anywhere during it. It could be at the the end of the project & after the song is written using the daw. Edited May 22, 2023 by hsmx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 Oh, the wisdom I could impart to my teenage self . Unfortunately it would have fallen on deaf ears. It takes a long time to realize how deep one's ignorance goes. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfssongs Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 53 minutes ago, bitflipper said: Oh, the wisdom I could impart to my teenage self . Unfortunately it would have fallen on deaf ears. It takes a long time to realize how deep one's ignorance goes. Same here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, bitflipper said: Oh, the wisdom I could impart to my teenage self . Unfortunately it would have fallen on deaf ears. It takes a long time to realize how deep one's ignorance goes. Amen bitflipper ! you get another same here from me . Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/21/2023 at 12:39 PM, rfssongs said: There is a lot of gear & software I would never buy again that I spent a lot of money on. Keep it simple. The gear won't make me better. Yes ! Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Sorice Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 Spend less time buying, playing with plugins and more time practicing and writing. I am sooo guilty of neglecting the advice I just gave… 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, Esteban Villanova said: The DAW is for recording, not for composing. On one level I can certainly understand what you are saying Yet I am not totally in agreement with you on that point of view . What we are talking about here is a double edged sword that cuts both ways . My preference is to play the snot out of my guitar and when I have something I feel captures the musical emotional intensity I want to convey I will record that . In the areas I agree , composing music on a DAW w out a clear musical picture of your intended song can become an exercise in futility . My Muse don't want to hang around for that $hit ! and no matter how many aromatic sprinkles I may sprinkle on my tunes they can still smell like a Turds . In my case I have found an approach that seems to help aid my chops and compositional skills in an alternative way using my DAW . Early on I discovered that a DAW is a perfect tool for deconstructing and aiding one in putting a great composers music under a microscope and learning how to understand, play and apply what I have worked on to my instrument the guitar or any other application I may have in mind . With out getting into great depth.... many of the common editing tools in a DAW lend themself s rather nicely for deconstructing songs and other peoples work .... One can EQ things in and EQ things out to hear what is really going on , Tempo control to slow it down enough to hear it , instant midi key transposition , audio to midi conversions , cutting and pasting sections to delve deeper into being able to understand a recognize how an artist / composer by setting up mini lessons to show the progression of how the composer arrived at their unique musical Idea ...this is just to name a few ...... For the record I happen to spend a great deal of my time transcribing music I feel is of value to me as opposed to staring at a blank song template and scratching my nuts trying to decide what to do next ... I hope you don't think I may be attacking you by what I am about to say next ....I am merely bringing up a point ... It seems to me a large percentage of the DAW community as a whole has a appetite for a number of particular market techniques that will bait their collective hooks with their favorite bait .... in addition to that idea many people can't seem to get enough ... What am I talking about here ? ... Lets consider the whole spectrum of musical software vendors that have meticulously analyzed, recorded and did a deep dive on every possible instrument , studio plug , and orchestral sound stage complete even with world renowned orchestras of world wide notoriety and acclaim while making the gear used by these artist and studios available for any one who has the coin to buy these products . IMHO this is a clear cut message a majority of the software companies are sending a message their products will aid some one in using the DAW for composition ? How do I know this ? I drank the Kool Aide and bought into the whole erroneous Idea that I can be a real legitimate composer given the right tools ? Now I know better ! all the best , Kenny Edited May 22, 2023 by kennywtelejazz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfssongs Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 Kenny, These "prefab" sources can also be a bit of inspiration, I have at times done this. You don't even have to keep the original track. I do this with drum tracks a lot. A new drum replacement track can be added pretty late in the process if everything is done tightly, for me that's done with Midi. In fact almost everything I initially record is eventually replaced bit by bit as I develop the feel until they are done. And they are never done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, rfssongs said: Kenny, These "prefab" sources can also be a bit of inspiration, I have at times done this. You don't even have to keep the original track. I do this with drum tracks a lot. A new drum replacement track can be added pretty late in the process if everything is done tightly, for me that's done with Midi. In fact almost everything I initially record is eventually replaced bit by bit as I develop the feel until they are done. And they are never done. Great Point ! Yes I agree with you there . Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) I would tell myself: keep writing songs. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you can mix and master. Leave that to those more skilled in it than you. Your ears aren't that well trained. But irony of that is, as bit pointed out, I wouldn't have listened to myself. Edited May 23, 2023 by Grem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 BTW Kenny, great topic. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbognar Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Learn to play keyboards A four bar loop is not a song Don't start a composition with a beat or bass line Don't produce while you're trying to write a song Master the things you own Compose with the instrument you know the best Compose with an instrument you aren't good at Start with an outline for a song 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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