Sound is Audible Even When No Input is Echoed (Resolved)

[Larry Jones]

RESOLUTION WAS IN WINDOWS SOUND SETTINGS. SEE MY LAST POST BELOW.

When I plug an electric guitar into my interface (1st gen Scarlett 6i6), I can hear it through my monitors even when I have no inputs set to echo (monitor). I'm sure I have got some setting wrong somewhere, but I have not been able to find my mistake. This is new behavior, as I've been recording direct guitar since the Pro Audio days and haven't experienced this. I have recently migrated to a newish PC, though, so had to set things up again. Does anyone have any thoughts on where I should look to fix this? Thanks!

Edited March 29, 2023 by Larry Jones

[Starship Krupa]

You have direct monitoring turned on.

Not sure exactly what the setting is (I have a Saffire Pro 40, which comes with different software), but it's in the Focusrite Control software that comes with the interface. It's an internal routing that sends the input directly to the output for zero-latency monitoring.

[Larry Jones]

5 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

You have direct monitoring turned on.

The damnable Focusrite MixControl! I have never used the useless "zero latency" function, and it is not currently set up that way, at least as far as I can tell. But the 1st gen ASIO panel is as opaque as any piece of software I have ever used, so who knows? I might have something turned on without knowing it. I never use it because it strips away all character from the signal -- no personality on the guitars, no echo on the voices, etc. -- and I have actually gone in and tried to make sure it's turned off. Either I'm missing something obvious or the thing is malfunctioning. Thanks for the tip. It makes sense and I'll take another look.

[Jeffiphone]

I have just recently experienced the same exact thing with a bass guitar. I have a Scarlett i2 2nd gen and this has never happened before.

[Larry Jones]

1 hour ago, Jeffiphone said:

I have just recently experienced the same exact thing with a bass guitar. I have a Scarlett i2 2nd gen and this has never happened before.

I feel your pain, brother. On the other hand, it's only fair that you 2nd and 3rd gen Focusrite users should feel mine (1st gen 6i6) Focusrite seems to have a problem with their concept of "routing."

7 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

You have direct monitoring turned on.

I checked, and nope.

[John Vere]

Het Larry, Yes the Mix Control is frustrating to learn but it has a reset toggle if you get into trouble that puts it back to the factory settings.

Those factory settings are the input will be monitored  in a 50/50 balance with the playback in the Monitors and both headphone channels.   This is normal.  A lot of interfaces like my Motu have a blend control on the front which when at 12 o'clock are a 50/50 mix. Scarlett just used software instead. This is good and it is bad. Good if you play in a band and need to set up 6 different monitor mixes,  bad if you hate overly complicated systems. The knob system is idiot proof.  Software mixers require the flight training of a airline pilot. 

I don't  recommend using input echo for tracking vocals or guitars. You will hear the RTL which on my 6i6 and  system is I think 16ms at 256 buffer. The very lowest RTL is about 7ms at an unusable buffers which cause drop outs. This is exactly why direct monitoring exists in the first place. Otherwise you will hear a slap back echo in the monitors as you listen to your guitar or vocals. 

I do believe if you have never changed anything in Mix control then you have been using direct monitoring all along.  

I do understand mix control but instead I use the method of turning down Cakewalks master bus if I need the guitar louder in the mix if I use the Scarlett. The Motu of course doesn't have the problem as it has the blend control, So does my Tascam and M Audio interfaces. 

[Larry Jones]

5 minutes ago, John Vere said:

I do believe if you have never changed anything in Mix control then you have been using direct monitoring all along.  

Hi @John Vere!
Great to hear from you and no, I never use direct monitoring. How do I know for sure? When I am all set up to record guitar, I can't hear it unless I activate Input Echo on the track I want to record. 16ms of latency is roughly equivalent to standing on stage 16 feet in front of your amp. I can do that, and have, many times. I am beginning to think something has happened to the hardware itself for this problem to present itself now after years of using this device. By the way, this is a 1st gen Scarlett 6i6. They don't even make it anymore, and MixControl doesn't come with any of the new Focusrite interfaces. If you don't have a 1st gen 6i6, you're not seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

Here's some more fun information on this issue: I noticed that I could still hear an instrument plugged into the interface even if CbB was not loaded. After trying all the software changes I could find in Focusrite MixControl as well as in Windows settings, I turned off the speakers, turned off the Scarlett 6i6 and unplugged it for 30 seconds, just as the lever one tech support guy on the phone always tells you to do. When I turned everything back on, it was working as it's supposed to! I don't want to monitor anything unless I specifically set that track to input echo, and that's how it was working! Yay!! But I loaded a project, played it one time, and the problem returned.

I checked all my hidden tracks to see if one of them had input echo on, but no. So I'm back to Square One. In the Good Old Days I might have seen this as a shopping opportunity, but I'm broker than I've ever been, so I really hope I won't be forced to replace this thing.

[Larry Jones]

Thank you @Starship Krupa and @John Vere,

I resorted to an online chat with Focusrite support. This forum has always been the best place to get real-world help, and over the years I've tried not to abuse that privilege, so I spent the day trying to fix this myself, then posted the issue here.  Usually I don't get any real help from the manufacturer, but at least I get to log the issue. This time, however, the tech seemed mystified by my problem, then went right to the fix:

That little box in the Windows sound settings had to be unchecked. Kind of counterintuitive, and I'm not sure when I checked the box, since I only noticed this issue yesterday. But maybe because I've been recording two new projects while still in the midst of setting up my "new" used computer I just didn't notice a little latency.? Anyway, I'm happy now, and I still say Focusrite MixControl must have been designed in hell, but A.J. at Focusrite Support is the Man.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Larry Jones

[Starship Krupa]

47 minutes ago, Larry Jones said:

That little box in the Windows sound settings had to be unchecked.

Whoa. I didn't know what that checkbox did, 'cause I've never tried checking it. Thank you so much for posting the solution. Would never have occurred to me, and yes, A.J. gets the Man award.

I can understand when you were having trouble getting the thing to put out sound, looking at that panel and thinking "heck yeah I want to listen to this device!"

With a complex interface like my Saffire Pro, which has 8 stereo outputs plus 2 headphone jacks, Mix Control was initially daunting. But once I figured it out the routing options, now I find it very useful. There are still aspects of it that baffle me. It sure looks like they let the electronics engineer design it rather than the audio staff.

[John Vere]

Yes mine is the 1st gen 6i6.  it's prime use is for the "Studio B " laptop I have loaded up to clone what my main DAW has installed.

 I bought the Motu because I figured the 6i6 was soon to fade away but right after I bought the Motu,  Focusrite updated the 6i6 driver again. But It doesn't have loopback and I do prefer not having a software mixer. The Motu has very well thought out monitoring system with the blend and then there's toggles to shut off inputs. But the 6i6 is still a great interface so I'm getting my moneys worth out of it still. ( and my Tascam us1641) 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by John Vere

[Billy86]

14 hours ago, Larry Jones said:

Anyway, I'm happy now, and I still say Focusrite MixControl must have been designed in hell,

So true. I still haven’t figured out how to direct monitor through FMC in my 4i4. It used to be an actual physical knob on my 2i2. I usually take one side of my cans off an ear to hear what I’m doing. Inelegant for sure, but I got totally frustrated and just wanted to make music not fight the tech. And I’ve watched all the tutorials but can’t get my thick noggin around it. Bring the knob back!?

[John Vere]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:05 AM, Billy86 said:

So true. I still haven’t figured out how to direct monitor through FMC in my 4i4. It used to be an actual physical knob on my 2i2. I usually take one side of my cans off an ear to hear what I’m doing. Inelegant for sure, but I got totally frustrated and just wanted to make music not fight the tech. And I’ve watched all the tutorials but can’t get my thick noggin around it. Bring the knob back!?

People miss out on a few features that become important when they buy an interface. My first 2 interfaces had the Blend control on the front. When I got the Scarlett 6i6 I was surprised to find it missing and almost took it back. But reading the manual I then saw that it was now done with the Software mixer so I carried on. 

But I found it a PITA to have to keep opening the Mix Control while tracking, so I came up with a solution which was I used my Yamaha 01V and the SPDIF connection for tracking. I used that system for a long time. The 6i6 was just a little red box that only controlled my Monitor level. Everything else was done in the 01V. Bummer was it is only 44.1kHz.  

I later figured out it was real simple just to turn down the Master or any  bus. They are always at unity so easy to reset. 

I only used the mix control once when I did a session with a 4 piece band and needed the extra headphone cue mixes. I still used the 01v and then I figured out all about those DAW 1,  DAW 2 etc things you could send to the 2 headphone jacks. 

Focusrite have since replaced Mix Control with a new software mixer and it looks easier to figure out now.