Synth/MIDI Track stops working (have you experienced this?)

[Starship Krupa]

I'm starting this thread because multiple people (including @chris.r) chimed in on another one saying that we've all seen similar behavior in Cakewalk. The big problem is, while this happens regularly, it's so far been beyond my ability to make it happen reliably. The developers can't fix an issue they don't see, and the only bug report that they can use is one that lays out a series of steps they can take to reproduce the problem. The only other way is if we can send them a project that's exhibiting the issue.

In this case, sending them the project might be a problem, because such is the nature of this that various stimuli can cure the condition, and one of those is (sometimes) exiting Cakewalk, relaunching, and loading the project again.

My scenario: I only use "split" MIDI/Synth tracks, that is rather than an Instrument Track. What happens is that at some point the MIDI track stops being able to communicate with the Synth Track. I don't know if it happens with Instrument Tracks as well.

I can usually see the meter moving on the MIDI track as the song plays, but no sound comes from the Synth track, nor does its meter show any activity.

There are, in my experience, only 3 actions that can (sometimes) cure this condition. First, and easiest, in some cases I can select MIDI channel 1 on the MIDI track and the synth track will start playing again. The rest of the time, I have to create the synth track again and set the MIDI track to drive it. In the past, sometimes I could exit Cakewalk and return and the problem would have sorted itself, but I haven't done that lately.

What I hope is that if enough of us look into this and report, we can figure out what sequence of events causes this to happen.  @Lynn Wilson said that it only seems to happen with VST2's, which sounds familiar, because my bread-and-butter synths, XPand!2, Hybrid 3 and Vacuum Pro, are all VST2 (as well as being from one manufacturer, AIR). It's happened a lot with KONTAKT, which until recently, was also VST2-only. So that's one place to start: when this happens, what specific synth, and is it a VST2 or VST3.

Also, does it happen for you with simple Instrument Tracks, or only split MIDI/Synth, or both? Does my method of forcing Channel 1 ever fix it for you? How about exiting and relaunching?

[Lynn Wilson]

I am having a problem with XPand!2 as well, currently.  It won't play in one song, but will play in a new song template, where it's the only VSTi.  I've also had problems with the vst2 version of Rapture Pro and Dimension Pro.  Usually, I can insert another track of the synth, and drag and drop the MIDI into the new track and be good to go, but not always!  I can't remember if this has happened to a vst3 plugin, but I don't think so, yet.  If it didn't happen to CW's own synths, I might think that it is a third party problem, but the fact that it happens to RP and DP suggests that it might not be.  Btw, I only use simple instrument tracks in these cases.  Here's to hope!  

[chris.r]

Hi Erik, just a small clarification. On the other thread I just gave an example with discovering recently a bug in the comping track where I think Cakewalk is not correctly saving small edits done on a comping track when saving a project, so different subject altogether.

As to your issue, I have had trouble with synths stopped playing the sound but I believe my case was different from yours. When hit play I got a pop sound then silence, red pegging meters indefinitely and the sound of the whole project would stop until reloaded. I mentioned Dexed as an example of plugin it happened with and someone popped in saying it's a buggy developement, but at the same time Plugin Guru doesn't find it buggy enough to not bundle it with his great piece of software, and besides others had that happened with different synths as well. Anyway, different case again, it seems.

I remember having once a project with MIDI (or Instrument?) tracks, that were associated to particular synths, playing wrong synths as if every output got phantomely reprogrammed. Unfortunately I didn't pursue this and have rebuilt the project from scratch. This may or may not be based on the same source of the issue, idk. All I can do is promise that the next time something like this happens to me I'll pay more attention to it and report back. Typically I like to use combination of both, the instrument tracks and additional MIDI tracks sourced to them in the same project, but I do use synths different to yours.

Would be absolutely glad to see some issues narrowed down if we can work together on them, just find the recipe and post for others to try ?

Edited March 27, 2023 by chris.r

[A Tolerable Quietude]

I'm not sure I've experienced exactly what you're talking about, but I have noticed that often if there seems to be a communication breakdown between a midi track in Cakewalk and a synth, it's because of the channel being wonky.  I've gotten in the habit of loading any synth in "midi omni" mode, which seems to make things work more smoothly.  Or, as you say, you can set the output channel of the track to 1.

You also might want to look for stray midi sysex, patch change, volume, or other unwanted control codes that may have snuck into the track.  The event list is always the first thing I look at if a midi track isn't behaving properly.  Just today I was drawing some notes onto a track in the piano roll, and those notes weren't playing.  Opening the event list, I saw that the new notes I'd drawn in were set to channel 10, for no reason I could discern.  I changed them to channel 1 on the event list, saved the project, closed and reopened Cakewalk, and reloaded the project.  Adding notes on the piano roll worked as expected.  Was it a bug, or some weird error on my part?  I'm not sure, but it was certainly something  I could fix/work around.

On the general topic of Cakewalk and stability/bugs, maybe I've just been lucky, but I've been using it daily for months now and found it impressively reliable and rock solid. 

[jackson white]

adding some experience/observations in case it helps.

18 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

MIDI track stops being able to communicate with the Synth Track.

noted primarily in more "mature" projects, including a couple that were started more than a few releases ago. NB  typically a simple instrument.  often (but not always) with multiple instances in a project, which were duplicates of existing tracks (i.e. adding a 2nd layer of sound using the same VST with a different MIDI channel in the dupe). when this happens, -none- Iof the "related" channels will generate any audio. IIRC VST3 for these cases.

the fix has been to create (not dupe) a new simple instrument track, drag the existing MIDI data to it and delete the original tracks. exit and restart CW never fixed it. taking note of the other suggestions in the OP, will explore them further the next time this happens.

16 hours ago, chris.r said:

got a pop sound then silence, red pegging meters indefinitely

noted with a 3rd party expansion for BFD3 (VST2 as there is no VST3).  NB all channels in BFD3 were routed to audio channels in CW. only a couple channels exhibited this behavior. the meters were pegged in the VST UI as well as CW. a few other BFD3 users reported the same issue, but with different DAWs.

assuming this might be an issue with the MIDI being sent from CW -or- the processing in the VST, i scoured the event list for rogue Velocity/Volume events but found nothing unexpected,  even tested it for possible edge cases. the "pops" would occur in repeatable spots with a consistent start time (usually 0:00:000) but not 100%. They would also show up in any audio export. if I changed the start time (moved it closer to the corrupting time stamp) it would often -not- occur at the original time stamp, but might show up further downstream. Once it happens, the only recovery was to close and reopen the project. 

[Byron Dickens]

I have only ever had something like this happen with 32 bit abandonware plugins.

[Starship Krupa]

17 hours ago, chris.r said:

Hi Erik, just a small clarification. On the other thread I just gave an example with discovering recently a bug in the comping track where I think Cakewalk is not correctly saving small edits done on a comping track when saving a project, so different subject altogether.

Apologies, Chris. I got you mixed up with another person. Thanks for chiming in.

 I, too, have experienced that pop/meter slam. Both with synths and FX. The VST3 version of the popular free Acon Digital Multiply Chorus does it reliably. VST2, no prob. I reported this to TPTB, but they had bigger fish to fry at the time. It would be cool if they took a look at it. Sure, there’s an easy workaround that points directly at Acon not having their VST3 act together, but it could be an opportunity to harden Cakewalk against this sort of plug-in failure. At least handle it more gracefully.

One of the “legacy” (by which they mean no longer supported) TAL synths also did it. “Bassline” I think.