Building Guitar Project

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, mettelus said:

LOL... that was my thought about signing for TruOil... maybe a bunch of "deaths by TruOil" that never made the news?? Just the dumbest thing to hear that, but some tree hugger got it on a "special list" somewhere.

Hey, watch it, I'm a Californian! ?

I like to reduce the impact on the natural environment wherever practical, I think it's good for everyone. One of the things I like about TruOil is its negligible toxicity and environmental impact. It's made from natural, renewable resources and you can wipe the stuff on with your fingers if you want to (although not recommended, it's kinda sticky).

The idiocy around TruOil likely comes down to how it's distributed and marketed rather than some clueless person targeting it specifically. Someone somewhere in the supply chain had to classify it, so they put down "firearm care" or whatever, and whoosh, it's "gun paraphernalia." And therefore dangerous, OMG?. And/or possibly the retailer and/or shipping company having a policy (at the request of law enforcement or otherwise) of taking note of whoever they send anything gun related to. So they can profile people who might someday take their Mother of Tinkertoy Tele to school and start bonking people with it.

A note for guitarists on further usefulness of gun paraphernalia: when I was doing amp repair, I went to a gun shop to buy TruOil for a guitar finishing project and noticed that the wire brushes used for barrel cleaning would be perfect for cleaning out dirty 1/4" amp input jacks, and output jacks on guitars. At the moment I can't recall which caliber works the best, a bit of research would do it. Remember that the sleeve diameter of those jacks is greater than 1/4". Otherwise, it's really tough to clean the sleeve. A spin with the barrel brush and contact is restored. Try it on a dirty jack and see if it helps.

[Grem]

13 hours ago, mettelus said:

It’s important that these holes are drilled square to the neck, so a drill press works best for this job." Having seen some folks who cannot align holes properly or drill square to a board this knocks it out of "beginner" status in my mind.

Beginner doesn't come to mind when I read that too!

I have a message in to a Stewmac instrument tech about the neck and body drill holes. I will wait to see what they say about it.

14 hours ago, mettelus said:

StewMac also sells three viscosities of super glue which is awesome stuff (the 10 grade is like water and wicks into the smallest crevasses with no issues, 20 is like generic, and the 30 is thicker).

This is some more real world application experience I was hoping to find. Thanks for that info. I am sure it will help those watching this thread and maybe even later on down the road.

19 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said:

4 0 steel wool was a fave of mine ...

Me too! It was a while before I learned to tape off my open coiled pups when ever I used it!

 

19 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said:

truth is it will combust and start a fire ...it may take a few days ...yet It will happen if you don't take the nessacary precautions to safely dispose of them .

Thanks for the safety tip Kenny.

Let me also add he is not joking one bit.

This stuff will start a fire on it's own. No spark needed.

 

 

 

[kennywtelejazz]

18 minutes ago, Grem said:

 

Thanks for the safety tip Kenny.

Let me also add he is not joking one bit.

This stuff will start a fire on it's own. No spark needed.

 

Your wellcome Grem ! I'm glad you are taking my words of warning  serious ....

A fella can work on his guitar all day and deep ito the night and say to himself I'm tired I'll clean up this oil mess tomorrow ....

Famous Last Words ???

BTW oil soaked steel wool may be a lot more flamable and may spontaionusly combust a lot sooner than the oil soak rags .

To illstrate my point take a bone dry 4 0 steel wool pad and touch it with the termanil ends of a regular Nine volt battery ...it will go up instantly ?

dang not having a spell check skucks ?

stay safe out there ,

 

Kenny

[Grem]

5 minutes ago, kennywtelejazz said:

To illstrate my point take a bone dry 4 0 steel wool pad and touch it with the termanil ends of a regular Nine volt battery ...it will go up instantly ?

I didn't know that.

[kennywtelejazz]

1 hour ago, Grem said:

I didn't know that.

It is actually a good survial tool ...

Have a section of your gear with a pouch of 4 0 steel wool ...have a few 9 volt batteries safely in its own compartment ...

If you car breaks down you will be able to start a fire ....?  .....hhhmmmm freshly toasted marshmallows and a cup of hot choclate under the illuminated nightly stars .?...

Oh yeah life is good !!You can even offer some to the tow truck driver when ever he shows up ?

 

Kenny

[57Gregy]

Plus, setting your car on fire will almost certainly attract the attention of the fire department.

[craigb]

56 minutes ago, 57Gregy said:

Plus, setting your car on fire will almost certainly attract the attention of the fire department.

Not where Kenny and I live! ?

[Grem]

I have to amend and retract some things I stated here. So I Posted Below A Full Explanation.

Ok, update: I got the notched straightedge that I ordered from Amazon for$12. A few things to note:

1. It is not accurate.  Closer to the smaller notches the more it goes out of square. I didn't measure it but it's at least eighth of an inch off. 

2. The notches doesn't fit any guitar I have. It will fit some on the small side, but doesn't fit all the way to the nut. Try going other direction and it fits by the nut, but soon goes out of wack the smaller the frets get. I tried it on 5 guitars. A Carvin (25" scale), Lp, G&L Legacy, MIC Squire Strat, and a custom Strat style.  Tried both sides, both ways, and it doesn't match one guitar. 

3. Sharp edges on the smaller fret sides. I could fix that with a file or dremel. 

Now the fret rocker tool that came with the set is dead on accurate and works as expected.  Guess I will find a use for that notched thing eventually!

Edited March 26, 2023 by Grem

[Grem]

Update#2: Heard back from Stewmac in reference to drill holes in neck.

The body has holes drilled. There are no holes drilled in the neck.

From the email:

Hi Michael,

Thank you for contacting us. The body is pre-drilled, but the neck does need pilot holes drilled for mounting.

[Sheens]

Michael, best to check frets with guitar in playing position/strings on.

(taking off strings/laying guitar down will change the neck relief).

fret rocker will rock somewhat on many spots always on any guitar (even on plec'd Gibsons !)  

Would advise to just work on the real obvious/extreme rocking frets (if there are any)

First try a little whack with brass/plastic hammer on high fret, maybe it's not pressed in well....

Sometimes you can actually see that with magnifying glass (or good eyes) or looking down the neck from the headstock.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Sheens

[mettelus]

The video referenced in the manual is below. At the 1 minute mark he is showing how to set it up for marking, but it occured to me that using a 4" C-clamp (with soft wood scraps to protect the neck and body from direct contact) and having the threaded side of that clamp on the neck side (so the body side had just the hook end of the clamp) would allow you to lock the neck in place. The question at that point is if the screws thread into the body as well, i.e., the body has 1/8" holes. If so, the body holes themselves would make simple drill guides and you would only need tape on the bit to know the depth stop. Clamped down securely, the bits are not going to walk on you (drill bits make terrible routers, is not how they work), but if those holes are bigger than 1/8" (i.e., the bolts pass through without thread engagement) you would need to reassess. For situations where the body is threaded as well, you would want them mated when first threading those bolts anyway, so that a mismatch in threads doesn't try to force a gap between the neck and body.

 

[craigb]

I like a bolt-on neck!

[kennywtelejazz]

9 hours ago, craigb said:

I like a bolt-on neck!

Oh Frankie !!!  Why don't you be a dear and take all the oily rags out with the trash .

                        

 

Oh Yeah Frankie !! Please do ! I love finding those oil soaked rags in the trash .

They do a great job of clearing  up my nostrils and help jump start my spontaneous combustion glands .

 

Kenny

Edited March 25, 2023 by kennywtelejazz

[Grem]

9 hours ago, mettelus said:

For situations where the body is threaded as well, you would want them mated when first threading those bolts anyway, so that a mismatch in threads doesn't try to force a gap between the neck and body

Excellent point. Great to point that out. Some would not know that a gap would be forced between the body and neck in a situation like that.

 It would be desirable for the body and neck to have threads for strength and stability. It is this exact process; dilling, then screwing the screws into the neck and body, that I am most concerned about. I don't have a drill press. Suppose I could rent one for the day. Even so, how I will keep both the neck in place and the body stable and still allowing me to do the work I need to do is what I am trying to figure out. 

[mettelus]

If the body is threaded (I am assuming it is since those screws have threads to the head), the simplest way is to screw the bolts into the body a few times so that you have a matching thread set with nothing to fight on the body side. To set the neck (after holes are drilled), insert the screws into the body again so that only the tips are exposed. This will make the assembly simpler, since the tips will align to the holes for you. You won't need intense pressure to mate the surfaces, but be careful about slipping the driver from the head! Plain vegetable oil makes a great starter lubricant (just need to dip the tip in some oil), since it absorbs into the wood and leaves a tacky residue after it has done its job for you. The binding force of a screw is the friction on the back side of the threads and the elongation of the bolt/screw. Work them in evenly, a few threads at a time, and even back them out (one at a time is simplest) and restart if they begin to bind. Be very careful with the screw head itself and be sure that the driver mates so that you do not end up marring the heads (or worse, jump out and poke the body or yourself). This is one situation where I would consider getting a few identical screws from a hardware store to do the threading... mar them all you want, do the work, then replace them one at a time with the intended screws and throw the marred ones away.

Instead of buying a one-use item (a drill press). High schools, community colleges, automotive repair shops or even hardware stores have shops set up. You could call around and talk to them about what you are trying to do. It is amazing when asking around how many folks are willing to help out. Places with liberal return policies get abused for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if a hardware store didn't end up saying to buy one, do your job, and return it. The other advantage with a press is that you can put a screwdriver bit in them and thread into the neck that way as well (I would still consider "expendable" screws and use slow speed on any press for this).

[Grem]

Great advise mettelus.  Now that I think about it my father in law had a drill press I can use. Your idea about getting the screwd started on the body with the tips sticking out is a good idea that I have used before so I am familiar with it.  Seems like the way to go for sure. 

I just not have put my head around putting on a c-clamp to hold neck and body, and still be able to work around it. IOW how will I put that configuration on the drill press? LOL!! Nor am I seeing how I would be able to get a drill around that without leaning in some direction because of c-clamp.

Will require more thinking on my part. 

[mettelus]

8 hours ago, Grem said:

I just not have put my head around putting on a c-clamp to hold neck and body, and still be able to work around it. IOW how will I put that configuration on the drill press? LOL!! Nor am I seeing how I would be able to get a drill around that without leaning in some direction because of c-clamp.

Sorry for the confusion with that. If you are using a drill press, what is shown in that video is the way to go. You won't be able to use a clamp in the press (just do the neck like he shows in that video).

The C-clamp idea was if using a hand drill on the neck, then you can leave the neck assembled to the body and use a bit extender in the drill and the holes in the body as the drill guides. In the below image, if the body is up and the neck is down, resting the clamp against the neck and using just enough buffer material to cover the clamp pads to prevent marring (even several layers of duct tape on the body side.. the neck side you want to distribute the force with a block of wood so you do not bend frets... you do not need or want excessive force on that clamp, just enough to hold things) should leave all four holes exposed. You would most likely need a drill bit extender so that the drill chuck cannot accidentally hit the clamp. Locking extenders are preferred over magnetic ones so that you can back the bit out easily (magnetic ones will let loose if pulled too hard so they are a pain to work with). 1/8" bits are typically short, so with the body clamped you won't get deep enough into the neck, but you can disassmble the neck after all 4 are as deep as you can get and then take them to the proper depth by just working with the neck (again, those holes in the neck would be your drill guides, they should be roughly half an inch deep and already square to the body for a second pass on the neck only for proper depth).

Edited March 26, 2023 by mettelus

[Grem]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:22 PM, Grem said:

Ok, update: I got the notched straightedge that I ordered from Amazon for$12. A few things to note:

1. It is not accurate.  Closer to the smaller notches the more it goes out of square. I didn't measure it but it's at least eighth of an inch off. 

2. The notches doesn't fit any guitar I have. It will fit some on the small side, but doesn't fit all the way to the nut. Try going other direction and it fits by the nut, but soon goes out of wack the smaller the frets get. I tried it on 5 guitars. A Carvin (25" scale), Lp, G&L Legacy, MIC Squire Strat, and a custom Strat style.  Tried both sides, both ways, and it doesn't match one guitar. 

3. Sharp edges on the smaller fret sides. I could fix that with a file or dremel. 

Now the fret rocker tool that came with the set is dead on accurate and works as expected.  Guess I will find a use for that notched thing eventually!

In Reference to Above Comments:

1. It is accurate. I have no idea what happened. Maybe it was adjusting to the air in my home. I did test it right after my wife brought it inside. And it was sitting in a mailbox in the Louisiana sun. (Just for reference: It's 80+ degrees right now. Sitting in a black box in this sun will heat you up!!). I have checked it with two different straight edges. It's square.

2. This is another user error. I assumed that I would start from the first fret by the nut, or the first fret by the pups. Wrong in both cases. Apparently you start at the second fret. When I did that it matched all my guitars. One side for Les Paul style, the other for Strat style.

3. I was right about this!! : )

 

 

So sorry for the confusion to anyone reading these posts!

 

[Grem]

8 hours ago, mettelus said:

Sorry for the confusion with that.

No the confusion is on me. Your giving great advise.

 

8 hours ago, mettelus said:

You won't be able to use a clamp in the press (just do the neck like he shows in that video).

I watched it (finally!) ands now I see what your saying. I also see why everyone was really adamant about getting the pilot holes correct!! DEAD CENTER!!! Someone in this thread had an idea/method about a drill bit with the little point on the end. I don't know what they are called but I know what they are talking about, and completely understand the why of using them.

I knew about putting the two strings on the guitar to align the neck. What I didn't understand was how was I gonna align the neck, keep it aligned, flip the whole shabang, then drill into the neck without getting it out of alignment!!!

I now see that I will only make small pilot holes while the neck is aligned, then take it off and drill the holes!!  Duh!!!

I have had one of those AH-HA moments.

I will place my order tonight. I now understand the most critical part I was concerned about.

Thanks to metelus and all the others who posted for sticking with me and helping me understand. I am teachable!! It just takes a little bit of work on my part... (and a lot of work on those trying to teach me!! LOL)

Edited March 26, 2023 by Grem

[mettelus]

So much more will make sense once you have the kit in front of you ? The finishing can take 10 times longer than the assembly, so have fun with it. It amazing how things have more value to you when you do them yourself.