It Might Be Time To Rethink Our Audio Software Purchasing (not a deal but related to pricing)

[craigb]

4 hours ago, smallstonefan said:

I will also add that if you run a software company, subscription is THE model to shoot for. It creates a very consistent cash flow and when you go to sell your business it's usually valued on a multiple of the subscription revenue as opposed to a multiple of the EBITA (a truly unique situation for software companies); subscription is here to stay.

From the business side I agree, but the thing that drives me crazy as a user is not being able to use a tool at all if I'm not subscribed.

Maybe some kind of hybrid approach where, if you want to create new stuff and use the latest and greatest, then you subscribe but, for a small, one-time fee, you can also use an older version that only has limited abilities?

I keep Photoshop CS6 installed on my computer just for this reason.  It was the last version that you could pay for and own.  Am I missing out on lots of new features, compatibility and bug-fixes that I would get if I subscribed?  Probably, but for occasional use there's no way I could justify paying for this monthly!

[Bapu]

32 minutes ago, craigb said:

 

Unobtanium? ?

Impossible to get or find?

[Bapu]

21 minutes ago, craigb said:

I keep Photoshop CS6 installed on my computer just for this reason.  It was the last version that you could pay for and own.  Am I missing out on lots of new features, compatibility and bug-fixes that I would get if I subscribed?  Probably, but for occasional use there's no way I could justify paying for this monthly!

Same here. And Illustrator CS6 too.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Bapu

[smallstonefan]

1 hour ago, craigb said:

I keep Photoshop CS6 installed on my computer just for this reason.  It was the last version that you could pay for and own.  Am I missing out on lots of new features, compatibility and bug-fixes that I would get if I subscribed?  Probably, but for occasional use there's no way I could justify paying for this monthly!

Same for me but CS5...

[antler]

6 hours ago, telecode 101 said:

Who is to say memory leaks are a security patch or a bug update?

They're bug updates. Memory leaks don't mean data is leaking to other processes; it's more that an app is taking some memory to do something, not releasing it when the task is done, and then taking more memory to do the same thing again later. When done once or twice, it's not too much of an issue (though it's still bad in principle); it's when it happens in a loop for hundreds or millions of times that the problem becomes very apparent.

That said, bugs and security updates sometimes get all bundled in the same update.

[balinas]

2 hours ago, craigb said:

 

Unobtanium? ?

Cantbelieveyoufellforthatium oxide?

[craigb]

2 hours ago, antler said:

They're bug updates. Memory leaks don't mean data is leaking to other processes; it's more that an app is taking some memory to do something, not releasing it when the task is done, and then taking more memory to do the same thing again later. When done once or twice, it's not too much of an issue (though it's still bad in principle); it's when it happens in a loop for hundreds or millions of times that the problem becomes very apparent.

That said, bugs and security updates sometimes get all bundled in the same update.

It happens when the garbage collectors are on strike! ?

[John1984]

1 hour ago, craigb said:

It happens when the garbage collectors are on strike! ?

I see what you did there.

[dubdisciple]

WUP doesn't bother me because plugins I got over 10 years ago still work on windows.  I never bothered installing my waves plugs on Mac.  In fact, I use very few third party plugs on Mac . 

[Starship Krupa]

The guy's site is "Pro Tools Expert," surprise: he's an apologist/advocate for a subscription model.

As with so many of my opinions, what I say is "it depends."

The entire software market isn't monolithic. You have software that's used for recreation, software that's used in the course of running a business, and software that may be both. The subscription model makes more sense for something being used in business

For software that I bought in good faith with an expectation of a certain level of utility, if it's found that the utility suffers due to defects, I absolutely believe the manufacturer should take care of it at no cost to me as would the manufacturer of a physical good that was found to be defective. I don't believe that I'm entitled to anything other than what I was sold. If the product stops working due to some change in the operating environment, well, that's up to the discretion of the developer. Developers who are strong in this area get more of my money.

[MusicMan]

I think there are some interesting points in the article, but it does make some assumptions that aren't always true.

A subscription model doesn't guarantee any updates, or developments from what I've seen.  A higher initial purchase price doesn't necessarily have a real bearing on future development from my observations.

There is a lot of assumptions that they must charge for compatibility updates and yet some developers release free products and update them too. Of course businesses need to be profitable, but often compatibility updates are very minor (excluding Apple and architecture changes). Many successful businesses provide these and even major updates for free.

If we look at a close comparison being hardware effects and instruments, then these will often last almost indefinitely pending hardware component failure, so given there are no components to fail and the fixes are develop once, deliver to many, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect free compatibility updates personally.

I would agree that in most cases subscription is a great model for businesses and developers though. As a consumer I avoid it, but there are definitely people who do like it, so having options is ok.

Edited January 13, 2023 by MusicMan

[kitekrazy1]

 Licensing is the top choice for me.   I don't buy Waves anymore.  Even dongled software allows at least two machines.  Many developers have had subs for quite some time it's that they don't constantly throw it in your face like Reason Studios.

 Sometimes users fail to realize what is packaged in their DAW is just as good as 3rd party. 

  Developers get tired of the (d)evolving OS.   Image-Line decided to stop selling plugins.  Updating those is way down the list because they want to spend more time on improving their DAW and new proprietary items.   Reason Studios is the exact opposite where they crank out more instruments. 

  Melda took some backlash because they recommended DAW users to go PC to avoid update hassles.

  It's been easy to rethink since the economy is terrible.   Some at VI Control just can't seem to figure out the $20 I wasted on the Claire Flute because the low register is an oboe.   In some stores that's 2 dozen eggs.   Price and quality I guess have to be opposites.   I still think the reason why Waves started the $29 market is to compete with small developers making quality plugins for less.   See Boz, Vahalla, Tokyo Dawn. 

[Bapu]

39 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 Licensing is the top choice for me.   I don't buy Waves anymore.  Even dongled software allows at least two machines. 

Methinks you may not be aware of this when you have WUP.

https://www.waves.com/support/using-waves-plugins-on-multiple-computers

[kitekrazy1]

45 minutes ago, Bapu said:

Methinks you may not be aware of this when you have WUP.

https://www.waves.com/support/using-waves-plugins-on-multiple-computers

Seems like a double negative.  WUP then expires and plugins not working on 2nd machine.

[craigb]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

Seems like a double negative. 

But, but...  Isn't a double negative actually a positive??! ?

?

[dubdisciple]

2 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Seems like a double negative.  WUP then expires and plugins not working on 2nd machine.

I think plugins still work but you just can't install after WUP expires. I had rbass on two computers for ten years and both worked fine long after expiration

[mettelus]

Or could take the model Melda uses where revenue is from new sales rather than soaking loyal customers. It is far easier to get an existing customer to shell out more money than to convince a new customer to buy a product (what started Adobe with their hostage tactics).

The internet and electronic delivery has inserted a complacency of software release with bugs without much thought because fixes are easily distributed. Some systems do not have that luxury, most recent example would be an idiot shutting down all flights in the US.

[Monomox]

To subscribe or not to subscribe: that is the question: 
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to pay for software on a monthly or annual basis,
or to take arms against a sea of troubles and pay for a one-time license.
To subscribe, to pay: perchance to have access to updates and support;
aye, there's the rub: for in that subscription of payments, what updates may come,
when we have succumbed to Apple's newest architecture, must give us pause.
There's the respect that makes calamity of so long life;
for who would bear the whips and scorns of monthly payments, the software bugs and compatibility issues,
the pangs of despised updates, the support's delay,
the insolence of customer service and the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy takes,
when he himself might his quietus make with a bare one-time purchase?
Who would subscriptions bear, to grunt and sweat under the music producer's life,
but that the dread of something after purchase,
the undiscovered country from whose bourn no customer returns,
puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of?

[Starship Krupa]

This forum does make misers of us all;
And thus the lure of higher resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of doubt,
And productions of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action
Venus Theory! In thy admonitions
Be all my sloth expos'd.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Starship Krupa

[antler]

1 hour ago, Monomox said:

To subscribe or not to subscribe: that is the question: 
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to pay for software on a monthly or annual basis,
or to take arms against a sea of troubles and pay for a one-time license.
To subscribe, to pay: perchance to have access to updates and support;
aye, there's the rub: for in that subscription of payments, what updates may come,
when we have succumbed to Apple's newest architecture, must give us pause.
There's the respect that makes calamity of so long life;
for who would bear the whips and scorns of monthly payments, the software bugs and compatibility issues,
the pangs of despised updates, the support's delay,
the insolence of customer service and the spurns that patient merit of the unworthy takes,
when he himself might his quietus make with a bare one-time purchase?
Who would subscriptions bear, to grunt and sweat under the music producer's life,
but that the dread of something after purchase,
the undiscovered country from whose bourn no customer returns,
puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of?

Well done - I did like that

One more thing on Apple's product pricing: apparently, four wheels for a Mac Pro costs £699.00

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-wheels-kit