AndyB01 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) This is one of those 'how long is a piece of string' questions but grateful for any suggestions. I have a Clevo i7 32Gb RAM laptop (badged as a Scan 3XS music production laptop, but it's a Clevo under the hood). Getting on a bit now, circa five years old, running Win 10 Pro. I upgraded both hard disks to SSDs a few years ago and these report good drive health. Recently it has started shutting down at random. No BSOD, no error, screen goes black then - poof - it powers off. It can be under load in CbB, just surfing the 'net or complete idling with nothing running - no rhyme or reason. Sometimes it comes back up straight away on restart and is then rock solid for hours, other times I've had it crash repeatedly six times in quick succession. Nothing obvious in Windows or minidump files that I can see and core temps don't seem to be running too hot. I have tried with or without battery fitted and it does it in both states, so it's not a dud battery causing it. My suspicions are heat or fans. The fans are noisy (always have been) and I dusted them all out a few months back. I also sit it on a mesh grid to allow the base fans and vents to work more effectively. Any idea what utilities I can use to do some more detailed investigation or specifically which logs I should be checking for a readout of potential triggers? I have read that these laptops have a RPM monitor in the BIOS, if it develops a fault and determines (incorrectly) that a fan is not working, it will auto shut down the device regardless of the actual core temps or state of the fan. Either way, I have checked the BIOS and there are no options in there for fan control. I'm planning to take it my local computer guy for some checks but I'd like to be able to give him a bit more to go on. So all contributions and suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance Andy Edited December 2, 2022 by AndyB01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Or loose/dodgy cable - I had that once with a SCSI drive (remember them?) and it caused all sorts of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 (edited) @Kevin Perry yep that's a good shout too - I am definitely old enough to remember SCSI drives. ? Although, looking at the mobo on the laptop, I don't see too much physical wiring but you never know. Thanks for the suggestion Edited December 3, 2022 by AndyB01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Download HWMonitor... and have a look at temps (under load). Otherwise, I'd have a look at the power-adapter and battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Jim Roseberry said: Download HWMonitor... and have a look at temps (under load). Otherwise, I'd have a look at the power-adapter and battery. Thanks Jim, will do. I think I'll be coming to you to purchase some consultancy on a spec when the time comes for an upgrade. Regards Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted December 5, 2022 Author Share Posted December 5, 2022 @Jim Roseberry I am guessing these might be indicative of the problem Looks to be running a tad hot... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 50 minutes ago, AndyB01 said: @Jim Roseberry I am guessing these might be indicative of the problem Looks to be running a tad hot... Andy Yes, overheating The min temps are where you'd like to see the max temps. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Assuming the fans are working OK and dust has been cleaned out, I would consider replacing the CPU heatsink thermal paste. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 Thanks for the tip Jack. Fans all cleaned out a few months ago and were working then - I don't fancy messing with the heatsink so I'll pass that one over to my local friendly computer tech. He's very good, and charges a reasonable rate ? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 Good work on finding the culprit! In my observation, after about 5-6 years, heatsink paste can start to lose its effectiveness, and of course we don't know that it was 100% perfectly applied in the first place. It's also possible, especially in portables, for the mechanism that holds the heatsink in place to get knocked around, maybe compromise the thermal bond a bit. Whatever, if you have your tech replace the paste and then check the temps, I'm guessing they will be fine. Actually, you'll likely get a peppier system overall because it won't be constantly running at the hairy edge of thermal shutdown. BIOSes are supposed to throttle processor performance when they get too hot. The farther you keep them from temperatures that will trigger throttling the better. My favorite monitoring tool is HWINFO. Its "sensors" view is very similar to HWMonitor, but it also has another view with very detailed system specifications, like it can tell you the manufacture date of individual RAM sticks, remaining battery health, remaining SSD life, and on and on. To see what Windows has to say about these events (if anything), look at Event Viewer, just type that phrase into Windows' search bar and it should pop up. Run it, and you'll find what you're looking for under Windows Logs/System, if the OS is able to trap anything. It may be that your laptop is dropping so fast that the OS is taken by surprise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted December 26, 2022 Author Share Posted December 26, 2022 6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said: Good work on finding the culprit! Thanks for this - not taken it in yet but it died on me six times already today, so it is definitely getting worse. I'll mention all this to the tech when I take it in. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Laptop is back from the repair shop - new thermal paste and it seems the CPU fan was completely clogged up - now sounds a lot healthier and those max core temps have dropped by around 25-30 degrees - which is much more within normal operating temps. Now I have no excuse not to get back to some of those music projects - apart from that long list of stuff Mrs AndyB01 wants me to sort out first... Thanks all who chipped in with advice on this thread - much appreciated as always. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 Unbelievably - after just two days of rock solid performance - this wretched problem is back again. ☹️ Can't be heat now as core temps have stabilised but the blasted thing won't stay up for more than about 15 minutes. Just powers off and shuts down at random. To say I'm mightily brassed off would be understating things by a long way but - worse still - I now have absolutely no idea what the cause is any more or where to even start looking. Any inspired guesses welcome. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse g Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Click Start > Type "Power" and select > Power & Sleep Settings and see how long before it goes to sleep, I changed my settings to NEVER. Also try updating the BIOS. Edited January 10, 2023 by jesse g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, jesse g said: Click Start > Type "Power" and select > Power & Sleep Settings and see how long before it goes to sleep, I changed my settings to NEVER. Also try updating the BIOS. Cheers Jesse #1 already done and #2 awaiting on a supplier to get me a BIOS update, as Clevo unhelpfully only make their BIOS updates available to suppliers and registered OEM Providers. Mad I know, I can get to the site but it wants a login and password that I don't have - the guys at Scan Computers are on to it for me. Mind you, a BIOS flash might just brick it or make things worse - decisions, decisions eh... ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I wouldn't suspect the BIOS. Is it shutting down when the PC is "idling" or is it under load (apps running)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesse g Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 From another website I read. I wish I was this smart... LOL Have you stress tested your system? I’d recommend you run these tests for about an hour each. CPU / RAM (Prime95) http://www.mersenne.org/download/ RAM: (Memtest86+) http://www.memtest.org/ GPU: (Furmark) http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/ If you experience any issues with these then you have an unstable system, which is probably due to the voltage going to your components. You can change these in your Bios, though you should have optimized defaults that you can try. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 hours ago, Jack Stoner said: I wouldn't suspect the BIOS. Is it shutting down when the PC is "idling" or is it under load (apps running)? Does it under all conditions - there's no consistent pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 BIOS voltage options are only available on some models. Many do not have options for undervolting or overclocking. If you do have tweaking options or are using them, resetting BIOS to factory defaults will eliminate any tweaking. Does it do it only on battery or only with mains power adapter? or both? I'm suspecting some component has been damaged by all the overheating. I can't say what diagnostic would zero in on a component. e.g. running memtest could show an error but not be the memory because of other flakey component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Jack Stoner said: Does it do it only on battery or only with mains power adapter? or both? Has done it on both, as a dud battery was the first thing I suspected as it's still the original one. I haven't tweaked any settings in the BIOS (Clevo BIOS is pretty locked down). I have tried resetting memory and checking physical connections as - after heat and battery - this was my next suspect. The intermittent nature of the fault makes it really difficult to diagnose so I am really appreciative of the ongoing advice - thanks all. I'll report back once I've had chance to try some of the above suggestions. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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