Syntmaster Player Baddy!

[Keni]

Yeah, it's free... Has lots of power... But for me, it's currently a joke to work with. Of course it doesn't allow the actual sound patch editing, I understand. It does allow toggling fx on/off etc. That could work except I'm finding it does not retain any of the changes I make. Upon next open of the project, I'm forced to manually recall the preset (at least that part works). I am about to replace it in the project I was using it in as this is not acceptable for me.

If there's some way to change this behavior, I would appreciate the info but so far I've been unable to uncover any such.

It's also a very difficult program to locate sounds. Even with the extensive feature set they include for doing so. I am continually overwhelmed with the huge number of arpeddiations and one-key playable grooves. Nothing wrong with having them though I don't use them, but it's hard to locate the playable sounds!

 

OK... I've said my piece. Now to find something to replace it with...

[abacab]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:15 PM, Keni said:

Yeah, it's free... Has lots of power... But for me, it's currently a joke to work with. Of course it doesn't allow the actual sound patch editing, I understand. It does allow toggling fx on/off etc. That could work except I'm finding it does not retain any of the changes I make. Upon next open of the project, I'm forced to manually recall the preset (at least that part works). I am about to replace it in the project I was using it in as this is not acceptable for me.

If there's some way to change this behavior, I would appreciate the info but so far I've been unable to uncover any such.

Sorry to hear that it's not working for you!

I just tested SynthMaster Player 2.9.15 here (VST2 & VST3).  Cakewalk 2022.09 saved and recalled any SM preset selections that I made in the project. I normally use the full SM, but took a look at the Player just now to confirm that it is running fine, same as the full version.

The preset selection should be recalled by Cakewalk when you open a project, as that is a standard Host <->VST Plugin function.

Edited October 27, 2022 by abacab

[Starship Krupa]

I tried this and you are correct, Cakewalk opens it with the parameters set to whatever the factory patch is.

What does work is saving your changes in Cakewalk's native patch system. The project will still load with the parameters set to whatever the SMP factory patch settings are, but at least you can recall your own changes.

This is obviously not acceptable, and seems to be a bug in Cakewalk. I tried the same thing in Mixcraft and it worked as expected, the project came up and the settings I changed in SMP pesisted.

Please report your findings to the developers. They've managed to fix similar issues with other plug-ins. I guess they haven't fixed it all the way yet.

As far as freebie ROMplers to replace it with, Arturia Analog Lab Lite has hundreds of sounds and may be had for free if you register at Soundbetter. https://soundbetter.com/. Analog Lab Lite is free directly from Arturia. Once you have these, you can also go to their store and find many more free sounds. I think you can still get Augmented Strings Intro for free there as well.

Of course there's also Sampletank CS, which comes with a plethora of useful sounds. Kontakt Start, with all of the sounds that come with Kontakt Player, is also a great way to fill out your ROMpler collection. Also A|A|S Swatches, but it doesn't allow any parameters to be edited.

But the important thing is to get Cakewalk to handle restoring Synthmaster parameters correctly.

[abacab]

4 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I tried this and you are correct, Cakewalk opens it with the parameters set to whatever the factory patch is.

What does work is saving your changes in Cakewalk's native patch system. The project will still load with the parameters set to whatever the SMP factory patch settings are, but at least you can recall your own changes.

This is obviously not acceptable, and seems to be a bug in Cakewalk. I tried the same thing in Mixcraft and it worked as expected, the project came up and the settings I changed in SMP pesisted.

Works great here! Something must be amiss on your system. ?

Edited October 27, 2022 by abacab

[abacab]

I played around a bit more and everything recalls correctly so far for me, except the FX routing controls.

The correct preset, volume, macro knob settings, and the layer sends. But the FX routing controls (Global and Layer) always go back to what they were set at. That's probably not something I would normally worry about in a Player. But I cannot reproduce the lack of preset recall.

[Keni]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

I tried this and you are correct, Cakewalk opens it with the parameters set to whatever the factory patch is.

What does work is saving your changes in Cakewalk's native patch system. The project will still load with the parameters set to whatever the SMP factory patch settings are, but at least you can recall your own changes.

This is obviously not acceptable, and seems to be a bug in Cakewalk. I tried the same thing in Mixcraft and it worked as expected, the project came up and the settings I changed in SMP pesisted.

Please report your findings to the developers. They've managed to fix similar issues with other plug-ins. I guess they haven't fixed it all the way yet.

As far as freebie ROMplers to replace it with, Arturia Analog Lab Lite has hundreds of sounds and may be had for free if you register at Soundbetter. https://soundbetter.com/. Analog Lab Lite is free directly from Arturia. Once you have these, you can also go to their store and find many more free sounds. I think you can still get Augmented Strings Intro for free there as well.

Of course there's also Sampletank CS, which comes with a plethora of useful sounds. Kontakt Start, with all of the sounds that come with Kontakt Player, is also a great way to fill out your ROMpler collection. Also A|A|S Swatches, but it doesn't allow any parameters to be edited.

But the important thing is to get Cakewalk to handle restoring Synthmaster parameters correctly.

Thanks Starship...

 

I thought posting here would be enough. I guess I need to make a "real" problem report? I haven't done that in a while... I'll have to remember how... ?

I have many other synths including Analog Lab Lite. My issue here was simply a patch with an arpeggio I liked for the part... I have mostly duplicated it with a few other synths to further develop the sound/part. For the moment, I froze the Synthmaster part so I needn't worry (for the moment) on this project. I still don't have one synth  with an arpeggiator I actually like. I rarely use one, but... it was an accidental part discovery... ?

 

[Keni]

56 minutes ago, abacab said:

I played around a bit more and everything recalls correctly so far for me, except the FX routing controls.

The correct preset, volume, macro knob settings, and the layer sends. But the FX routing controls (Global and Layer) always go back to what they were set at. That's probably not something I would normally worry about in a Player. But I cannot reproduce the lack of preset recall.

Thanks abacab...

As it's happening with Starship too, it's not just my system. Some stuff does indeed get saved, but the simple task of muting the reverb and delay is where I discovered the issue. Closing and re-opening the project returns to the preset, not with these changes.

[Starship Krupa]

54 minutes ago, abacab said:

But the FX routing controls (Global and Layer) always go back to what they were set at. That's probably not something I would normally worry about in a Player. But I cannot reproduce the lack of preset recall.

It's the FX routing that's the issue, yes. The OP mentioned it. There is no problem with the preset being recalled, it does come back to the right preset, it just doesn't remember the FX routing. Since many people (like me) prefer to turn off a synth's internal reverb and delay and use our own, this is something to be concerned about.

Bottom line: it doesn't work correctly in Cakewalk (works fine in Mixcraft).

[abacab]

2 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

It's the FX routing that's the issue, yes. The OP mentioned it. There is no problem with the preset being recalled, it does come back to the right preset, it just doesn't remember the FX routing. Since many people (like me) prefer to turn off a synth's internal reverb and delay and use our own, this is something to be concerned about.

Bottom line: it doesn't work correctly in Cakewalk (works fine in Mixcraft).

Gotcha! I misunderstood Keni,  and I thought all of the preset settings were getting dropped, and it was only happening with the FX for me here.

I'll give it a go in Reaper and Studio One... also will compare with the full SynthMaster 2 vs. the Player.

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, abacab said:

Works great here! Something must be amiss on your system. ?

Yes I must have my system configured in such a way that allows Mixcraft to handle it correctly but blocks poor sensitive Cakewalk.

Where do you think I should start looking? Audio interface driver? Motherboard BIOS update? Chipset drivers? Video driver? Disable C-states? Turbo mode? ?

[abacab]

1 minute ago, Starship Krupa said:

Yes I must have my system configured in such a way that allows Mixcraft to handle it correctly but blocks poor sensitive Cakewalk.

Where do you think I should start looking? Audio interface driver? Motherboard BIOS update? Chipset drivers? Video driver? Disable C-states? Turbo mode? ?

That should almost cover it! Did you try rebooting, reinstalling Windows, or maybe replacing the machine? ?

You did notice the winky emoji on my post, right?

[Starship Krupa]

1 minute ago, abacab said:

Did you try rebooting, reinstalling Windows, or maybe replacing the machine? ?

Not yet, but I did of course try disabling my network interface card. Going to try turning off ACPI and see if that helps. Also hybrid sleep. I already have a Texas Instruments chip Firewire card, so we can rule that out. Buffers are set to 384. I'll try swapping in a different Firewire cable and check again to make sure the on-board sound chip is disabled.

[abacab]

39 minutes ago, abacab said:

I'll give it a go in Reaper and Studio One... also will compare with the full SynthMaster 2 vs. the Player.

Okay, here are my results, and the 3 DAWs tested are all consistent.

• Cakewalk
• Studio One 5 Pro
• Reaper

SynthMaster Player does not save the plugin FX settings, but the full SynthMaster 2 does save them (at least here).

IMO it's possibly a KV331 design intent to block the saving of effects settings in the preset as they are technically part of a preset that is blocked from edits while using the Player. I would open a support ticket with the KV331 support team first to confirm this.

Here is the web form: https://www.synthmaster.com/contactus.aspx

I cannot understand why Mixcraft works differently with the Player on Starship's machine.

Edited October 28, 2022 by abacab

[Keni]

6 minutes ago, abacab said:

Okay, here are my results, and the 3 DAWs tested are all consistent.

• Cakewalk
• Studio One 5 Pro
• Reaper

SynthMaster Player does not save the plugin FX settings, but the full SynthMaster 2 does save them (at least here).

IMO it's possibly a KV331 design intent to block the saving of effects settings in the preset as they are technically part of a preset that is blocked from edits while using the Player. I would open a support ticket with the KV331 support team first to confirm this.

I cannot understand why Mixcraft works differently with the Player on Starship's machine.

It might be a common programming technique used by some but not all...

 

BTW, I did save the patch with fx disabled as a preset in the Cakewalk frame. When I use it, the fx status is correctly returned (fx disabled)

Edited October 28, 2022 by Keni

[abacab]

11 minutes ago, Keni said:

BTW, I did save the patch with fx disabled as a preset in the Cakewalk frame. When I use it, the fx status is correctly returned (fx disabled)

Well that indicates that Cakewalk is able to save the preset state of the plugin. Sounds like a plugin programming issue to me.

[Keni]

3 minutes ago, abacab said:

Well that indicates that Cakewalk is able to save the preset state of the plugin. Sounds like a plugin programming issue to me.

Could be. ...but could also be that two different routines are used in Cake. One saved with current settings (typically I change settings on synth and Cake remembers the changes without the need for me to save a preset. Doesn’t appear very necessary fir such a simple task. The other saving that data to a preset?  

[abacab]

27 minutes ago, Keni said:

Could be. ...but could also be that two different routines are used in Cake. One saved with current settings (typically I change settings on synth and Cake remembers the changes without the need for me to save a preset. Doesn’t appear very necessary fir such a simple task. The other saving that data to a preset?  

@KeniOkay, just tried it with 3 more DAWs, whew! ?

Ableton Live 11 was the same as the other 3 DAWs that I tested, but Bitwig Studio 8-Track and Tracktion Waveform 12 Free saved the FX state with the project. No saving in the DAW's native preset format required.

So it appears that these last 2 are in the same category as @Starship Krupa's Mixcraft.

So here is the breakdown so far as tested...

DAW project saves SynthMaster Player preset FX state:

• Mixcraft
• Bitwig
• Waveform

DAW project doesn't save SynthMaster Player preset FX state:

• Cakewalk
• Studio One
• Reaper
• Ableton Live

Ugh!!! ?

Edited October 28, 2022 by abacab

[Keni]

32 minutes ago, abacab said:

@KeniOkay, just tried it with 3 more DAWs, whew! ?

Ableton Live 11 was the same as the other 3 DAWs that I tested, but Bitwig Studio 8-Track and Tracktion Waveform 12 Free saved the FX state with the project. No saving in the DAW's native preset format required.

So it appears that these last 2 are in the same category as @Starship Krupa's Mixcraft.

So here is the breakdown so far as tested...

DAW project saves SynthMaster Player preset FX state:

• Mixcraft
• Bitwig
• Waveform

DAW project doesn't save SynthMaster Player preset FX state:

• Cakewalk
• Studio One
• Reaper
• Ableton Live

Ugh!!! ?

Wow! Amazing work. So we see there’s some common issues going around.

 

Now for me to try remembering how to post a proper trouble report. I take it the Bakers are still doing things that way?

 

 Thanks ? 

 

OK. I submitted a tech request. I guess that’s the path now? I also referred to this thread for them.

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Keni

[abacab]

24 minutes ago, Keni said:

Now for me to try remembering how to post a proper trouble report. I take it the Bakers are still doing things that way?

Well, since the issue seems to be split between so many DAWs, my gut tells me that the plugin may be doing something improperly. As with my earlier suggestion, opening a ticket with the plugin developer first to confirm its functionality may be faster, but that's up to you! KV331 Support has usually responded to me in a reasonable amount of time.

[Keni]

14 minutes ago, abacab said:

Well, since the issue seems to be split between so many DAWs, my gut tells me that the plugin may be doing something improperly. As with my earlier suggestion, opening a ticket with the plugin developer first to confirm its functionality may be faster, but that's up to you! KV331 Support has usually responded to me in a reasonable amount of time.

You may be right.

I already filed the Cakewalk report. I’m too burnt right now but I will attempt contacting KV331 tomorrow.

 Thanks again.