Better Video Support

[murat k.]

Cakewalk has still issues with video playback. Blinking black screens when pause, unsupported video and video audio formats etc. It needs to take a look there.

Edited June 28, 2022 by murat k.
BTTF edit

[Starship Krupa]

The powers that be would probably like to know the specs of your system, especially GPU.

[Promidi]

Cakewalk is a Digital Audio Workstation.  If you want to edit videos, you might yet better results with a dedicated video editor.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Promidi

[murat k.]

18 hours ago, Promidi said:

Cakewalk is a Digital Audio Workstation.  If you want to edit videos, you might yet better results with a dedicated video editor.

Where do you get that idea that I'm trying to edit videos in the Cakewalk? But it is still a great idea to edit videos with a dedicated video editor. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by murat k.

[Starship Krupa]

2 hours ago, Promidi said:

If you want to edit videos, you might yet better results with a dedicated video editor.

Unquestionably, but to be fair, murat did say playback. The intended function of Cakewalk's video track, from my understanding, is putting up a video so that you can create/edit the music that goes with the video. A DAW is, IMO, an appropriate tool for that, and if Cakewalk has the feature, it should work well.

I have two different ways of going at video with music. The first way, the "music video" way, is I create a song that I want to do a YouTube video for. In that case, I do the song first in Cakewalk (or another DAW) import it into Vegas Pro and start having fun with video clips and FX. The audio comes out mostly untouched, except for maybe adjusting the ending.

The second is when I have shot some video and want to "score" it. In that scenario, I want to be able to play or program or edit or whatever, audio to fit the images. In that case, where the heavy lifting is audio, I prefer to be in my DAW.

[Promidi]

The only setting I can think of in relation to video in cakewalk is switching between Media Foundation and DirectShow video engines

So if you are having issues with video playback in Cakewalk this is one thing to try.

see:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Troubleshooting.07.html

If that does not work, then you still need a video editor (or at least a video converter) to convert the video to another format.

[murat k.]

13 minutes ago, Promidi said:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Troubleshooting.07.html

Thanks. It worked. Now I don't see that black blink when I pause the video. I think DirectShow Engine should be the default.

32 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

The second is when I have shot some video and want to "score" it. In that scenario, I want to be able to play or program or edit or whatever, audio to fit the images. In that case, where the heavy lifting is audio, I prefer to be in my DAW.

And I agree with that.

 

[murat k.]

I tried it with another video and I saw that black blink on pause again. I think this issue should be taken seriously by Bakers. That blink is really annoying when working with video clips. There are open codecs available out there, Cakewalk can download and run them when there is needed like a regular video player.

[murat k.]

And I'm having trouble to play MP4 files with Media Foundation engine even it says in the document: "Media Foundation generally supports most older formats supported by DirectShow as well as many newer formats such as H264 video. "

[murat k.]

And same video files are working without an issue with the Cubase as a side note.

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, murat k. said:

I think this issue should be taken seriously by Bakers.

And I still think that they would want to know your system's specs, especially what GPU you're using.

Also, when reporting issues with Cakewalk reading media files, grab a copy of MediaInfo (everyone should get it anyway, so useful) so that you can see what kind of CODEC's were used to create the file, frame rate, etc.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Starship Krupa

[murat k.]

26 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

And I still think that they would want to know your system's specs, especially what GPU you're using.

 

I thought you were joking. No I think this issue doesn't depend on my system. Like I said in this phrase:

2 hours ago, murat k. said:

And same video files are working without an issue with the Cubase as a side note.

It seems Cakewalk has issues with video playbacks regardless of my or any system. This is a problem and I think we don't have to deal with converters, other 3rd party softwares like @Promidi said. Cakewalk has to deal with the video formats automatically like Cubase do. This is the normal thing a normal user can expect.

[murat k.]

Also keeping the video audio with the video thumbnail would be great:

By this way we can see the video audio as a reference with the video all the time even if we navigate between the tracks.

[murat k.]

Actually I sent these requests years ago to the Cakewalk Support Team. Nothing happened. But I feel it's the time to fix these playback issues and interface arrangements for the videos. We got the Tempo and Articulation Maps. Now we need an improvement for the Video side.

[Lord Tim]

Saying "this works in X app" is kind of meaningless, really. That's great that it does, but all that says is "that app has a different rendering engine" or "it makes these particular codecs I'm using available to it" rather than saying "Cakewalk does NOT render THIS particular clip, and here are the specs."  It's easy to assume on the surface that it's a similar app so it must work in a similar way but it's rarely the case.

Codecs can vary GREATLY from video to video. Even an MP4 is just a container that could have all kinds of different stuff in it, and then going even more granular, let's say that it's a h.264 MP4, sometimes just having the frame rate as VFR rather than CFR can cause all sorts of problems, even in dedicated video workstation apps. Switching the rendering engine in CbB can help with certain types of video but will absolutely break other types. It's actually quite complex.

Video view definitely does need an overhaul, I absolutely agree with that. From what I gather, the video part is mostly unchanged for a VERY long time, and I'd almost guarantee that's due to the layers of complexity I mentioned above.

Adding in things like tempo tracks and arranger tracks and all of that stuff extends on the functionality that CbB already has built-in. Working more with video involves many more third-party libraries and low-level integration. Go have a look at the Vegas forums, for example, and you can see what a nightmare this is even with a dedicated video app.

That all said, I've had great results with h.264 720p AVC MP4 files, and this is using them to score hour+ long live show mixes. It's definitely frustrating not being able to crop or move the start time, however, but I treat this in the way where it was first introduced - it's a preview to score to, and then you export that mix and import it into a proper video editor.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a to-do list for this stuff already in place, but realistically looking at priorities, those of us (myself included) that actually use the video view as compared to the general functions like articulations/tempo/arranger/UI, etc. that most people would be using in a DAW, and adding in the can of worms this is going to open once they do give it an overhaul, I'd say it's taking a while to make it up through the priorities list.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Lord Tim

[Byron Dickens]

6 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

it's a preview to score to, and then you export that mix and import it into a proper video editor.

?

 

That's the real answer right there.

 

 

[murat k.]

1 minute ago, bdickens said:

9 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

it's a preview to score to, and then you export that mix and import it into a proper video editor.

?

 

That's the real answer right there.

What the?

Let me clear, this is for composing for a finished video. 

There is no need for video editing OK?

Just playback. Simple.

With the Cakewalk for now,
I'm having trouble with the video playback.
I need to see the Video Audio as a reference at the top with the Video Thumbnail.

And I can do all these kind of stuff with the Cubase without an issue.  

And I want these for my own DAW.

That's pretty much it.

[murat k.]

And @Lord TimI was thinking to write an answer to you but on second thought, I found that it is not necessary. I really appreciate your participation to this topic with your elaborate comment.

[Starship Krupa]

11 hours ago, murat k. said:

No I think this issue doesn't depend on my system.

Hey, suit yourself. I was in no way suggesting or implying  that it is dependent on or unique to your system. This isn't finger pointing, it's trying to make things easier for the devs to fix.

I have been submitting bug reports for 30 years in the software industry, both as an in-house professional engineer and as a member of multiple beta teams, and submitting system configuration is part of the process. With beta teams, they often keep your system specs on file or just have you keep them in your sig in whatever forum software the team uses. This is especially true with Windows, where the hardware isn't locked down by a single manufacturer.

When it comes to video playback, for instance, do you really believe that it doesn't matter what video card you're using? Do you believe that it doesn't matter whether it's occurring with an AMD, nVidia, or Intel GPU?

Usually when you submit a bug report, a dev engineer will give it a try on whatever system(s) are available to them. If it happens on their system(s), bingo, they can start working on a fix. If not, then it becomes much more problematic.

One thing they don't  do is fire up a copy of a competing product for troubleshooting. So while "it works in "Cubase" helps you narrow it down, it does nothing for the people who are tasked with fixing it.

[murat k.]

4 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Hey, suit yourself. I was in no way suggesting or implying  that it is dependent on or unique to your system. This isn't finger pointing, it's trying to make things easier for the devs to fix.

I have been submitting bug reports for 30 years in the software industry, both as an in-house professional engineer and as a member of multiple beta teams, and submitting system configuration is part of the process. With beta teams, they often keep your system specs on file or just have you keep them in your sig in whatever forum software the team uses. This is especially true with Windows, where the hardware isn't locked down by a single manufacturer.

When it comes to video playback, for instance, do you really believe that it doesn't matter what video card you're using? Do you believe that it doesn't matter whether it's occurring with an AMD, nVidia, or Intel GPU?

Usually when you submit a bug report, a dev engineer will give it a try on whatever system(s) are available to them. If it happens on their system(s), bingo, they can start working on a fix. If not, then it becomes much more problematic.

One thing they don't  do is fire up a copy of a competing product for troubleshooting. So while "it works in "Cubase" helps you narrow it down, it does nothing for the people who are tasked with fixing it.

This is not a bug report that depends on my system specs. This is an ongoing general issue for everyone who use Cakewalk.

If you are not having trouble with video playback, this means you are using a video file which has no trouble with the Cakewalk.

There are various video formats which use various codecs out there, Cakewalk is not dealing with them as others do.

This is the topic.