PhonoBrainer Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) You know who really can't sing for beans? Tom Waits. Lou Reed. Leonard Cohen. Bob Dylan. Yet people make attachments to their songwriting and as artists, they get over. Secondly, we are often our own harshest critics. I'm not a fan of my own, particularly. But that's ok. That's just one of many boxes left unticked ?. Still gotta write songs. That shared curse is partly why this forum exists. I think you write good songs, and as we all are, you are developing as you go. Most importantly, why did your health care costs double ??? For fixed income, that's a complete killer. Maybe you could pony up a song about that . . . sounds like blues potential. cheers, -Tom Edited June 16, 2019 by emeraldsoul 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Kirby Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 I was taught a long time ago to sing from the diaphragm of the chest - from deep down. I sit down when I do a vocal, but I lean forward and sing from the diaphragm. Once I learned that, I rarely need to use Melodyne. In fact, instead of using Melodyne, I usually punch in and sing the phrase again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 Thanks Emerald Tom and Doug. Good point regarding Dylan, Reed, Waits & Cohen. You could say they have their own styles vocally. I have a "novelty" type of soul voice which I've used on a few tunes that people have made favorable comments on. Maybe I should use that voice permanently, but it doesn't fit every style of music. It wouldn't fit this one well. It's kind of like if you ever heard heard some of Billy Joel's songs like "52nd Street" (the title track of the album). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6sEc_WsoeA&list=RDO6sEc_WsoeA&start_radio=1Regarding my insurance, I retired early 4 years ago and my union gave a 50% discount which in April they saw fit to take away so now I must pay full price. I managed to get an Obamacare plan, but that will cut into next years tax return. Only 13 more months till good ol' Medicare. I can't wait. But I don't want to make this a thread about health insurance. I get by OK but the voice lessons would be a bit much. I looked at some of the Roger Burnley videos that Christian sent me and they look impressive, so I think I'll give them a go. ?JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 John, these guys, Christian, Tom, Douglas, they're all correct. Please don't take criticism as a sign to quit. Your songs are really good, don't quit just because one dog says you could improve. Use that to fuel you into doing better and yes, EVERYONE can improve unless they have a physical limitation that prevents them from doing better. There are free options on the internet. search them and try them. work on it. DON'T give up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) Can anybody tell me why when I try to re record a vocal on a song like this, I only make it worse?! I made a pre recorded vocal warm up track and spent a considerable amount of time warming up as per every tipster and vocal coach I've ever heard. It would make sense that I should be able to get it sounding better, but I only manage to sound more like an idiot than before! I must be an untalented POS! I try. I really do. I guess it's time to give it up! ? Edited June 25, 2019 by Johnbee58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybrun Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi John. I cant listen to the song as maybe you have removed it now. The thing is on these forums... sometimes we can be to nice. Others take constructive criticism hard while others do not. I personally would like people to rip my recordings to bits then I learn and improve. Regarding being nice etc. etc. You have really got to snap out of this and stop feeling sorry for yourself. You song writing and musical arrangement skills are good (better than mine) and so so what... you dont have the greatest voice on the planet... I don't like Bob Dylan think he sings for Sx@t.. but his writing skills are amazing, So put you songs back up and stop throwing your rattles out of the pram... people will be nervous to comment on your songs if they think that their comments will make you want to give up. Well there ya go... full barrel!!! Look forward to hearing more of your music. All said in love!! Gary 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, garybrun said: Hi John. I cant listen to the song as maybe you have removed it now. The thing is on these forums... sometimes we can be to nice. Others take constructive criticism hard while others do not. I personally would like people to rip my recordings to bits then I learn and improve. Regarding being nice etc. etc. You have really got to snap out of this and stop feeling sorry for yourself. You song writing and musical arrangement skills are good (better than mine) and so so what... you dont have the greatest voice on the planet... I don't like Bob Dylan think he sings for Sx@t.. but his writing skills are amazing, So put you songs back up and stop throwing your rattles out of the pram... people will be nervous to comment on your songs if they think that their comments will make you want to give up. Well there ya go... full barrel!!! Look forward to hearing more of your music. All said in love!! Gary I appreciate that❤️, but the question I posed above is a sincere one. I really, really tried to improve it by redoing it and it just got worse. Seriously wondering why this happens and if it happens to anybody else and if so, how they approached it. ?JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl1968 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/13/2019 at 10:04 PM, Johnbee58 said: "She" is a piano. Needs a few tweeks yet. Do you think the bass is too hot? At least it's not political. Hoping to hear from more of you on this one. Thanks! https://johnbowen.bandcamp.com/track/quietly-she-sings ?John B Hey John - came for a listen and the link isn't working 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Yeah. I'll fix it a bit later.?JB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Relinked https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/player.cfm?songID=13891166 Thanks for your patience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybrun Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi John. Listened to your song. What is wrong with your vocal? Do you use compression... maybe that will help with dynamic range on the vocal. Its a very clever song... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Wilson Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 John, I've listened to this song a number of times so that I can wrap my head around this. It's a lovely song with an ambitious chord progression that is haunting overall. To answer your question about the vocal - your melody is quite ambitious, as well. You jump around the scale quite a bit when you could be gliding from note to note. I call this vocal gymnastics, ala, Whitney Houston, etc. That's fine if you've got the chops. If not then play to your strengths. Arrange your vocal to fit your voice, i.e. find your sweet spot instead of singing the Olympic exercises just because you hear them. Sometimes less IS more. Your a damn good lyricist, so use your lyrics to showcase your voice and write around your strengths instead of your weaknesses. All the best! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Thanks Gary and Lynn @garybrunI use some compression. Mostly the Red Compressor that came with my Focusrite Scarlett. @LynnI came up with such ambitious music for this that I guess I got carried away with the melody. I generally don't like melodies that come too easy, especially in this day and age when everybody is becoming lawsuit happy, at least in the music industry. If you have to work at developing the melody to the point of having to chart it out with a piano at least you know it's yours. ? Regarding my voice (again). In addition to the above mentioned Bob Dylan, Lou Reed and Leonard Cohen, one of my favorite songwriters is Joe Jackson. He's a big influence on my writing but his singing voice is kind of mediocre. I guess I can take some inspiration from him in this as well. But I've always loved that vulnerability in his voice. So, I'm happy if I can liken my voice to his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7IGRNWVQkc Fact is I used to have a good voice years ago and I've been taking notice over the years that it's been faltering. In another couple of years I doubt I'll be able to sing at all, so I feel like I have to get the tunes in me out before the pipes quit for good. I used to have a fair falsetto, but that's gone for good. I can't even come near being able to kick it up into my head at all now. It's so sad that when I had a good voice the technology wasn't as good and as affordable as it is now. And now that the gear is cheaper and better my pipes are falling apart. I envy you younger dudes for that. You're at the right time and the right place for the gear and the "goods" ?JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Joad Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 14 hours ago, Johnbee58 said: I must be an untalented POS! I try. I really do. I guess it's time to give it up! ? Hi John, do you mind if I call you John? Here's the deal. no-one on this forum is gonna score a billion dollar recording deal. basically we are just having a big conversation about music. you can write and you can play, and if you're anything like me music is part of your internal dialogue, so it's not like you can stop thinking about music anyway. it's healthy to have a creative outlet and nobody seems too offended by what you're posting so relax it's all good. Your lyrics are good, your playing is good, and you have a copy of Cake-walk so you have every right to post here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Johnbee58 said: I guess it's time to give it up! No, never give up, so long as you enjoy the process... Singing didn't sound too bad to me to be honest and apart from a few of those drifting moments you actually stuck quite close to pitch, and you cover quite a range through the song. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Joad said: Hi John, do you mind if I call you John? Here's the deal. no-one on this forum is gonna score a billion dollar recording deal. basically we are just having a big conversation about music. you can write and you can play, and if you're anything like me music is part of your internal dialogue, so it's not like you can stop thinking about music anyway. it's healthy to have a creative outlet and nobody seems too offended by what you're posting so relax it's all good. Your lyrics are good, your playing is good, and you have a copy of Cake-walk so you have every right to post here. So nice of you to say all of this, and yes, you can call me John.? You're so right that the music is something that when it's in you, it won't be silenced. I was talking to somebody else about this yesterday. Music is like an internal drive that, just like sleeping and eating, can't be easily suppressed. Sadly, a time will come in all of us when we'll have to give it up just due to getting too old. But I think of old Gordon Lightfoot. He had such a great and strong voice in his prime. He's 80 years old now and still singing. He struggles, but you can tell he still loves it, and his fans still love him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3bgFN7qLvs&t=1168s ? Edited June 25, 2019 by Johnbee58 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, synkrotron said: No, never give up, so long as you enjoy the process... Singing didn't sound too bad to me to be honest and apart from a few of those drifting moments you actually stuck quite close to pitch, and you cover quite a range through the song. Hi synkro! Your's snuck in while I was typing the last post. Thanks for taking the time to listen. ?JB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Joad Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Johnbee58 said: I generally don't like melodies that come too easy, especially in this day and age when everybody is becoming lawsuit happy, at least in the music industry. If you have to work at developing the melody to the point of having to chart it out with a piano at least you know it's yours. ? Regarding my voice (again). In addition to the above mentioned Bob Dylan, Lou Reed and Leonard Cohen, one of my favorite songwriters is Joe Jackson. Love Joe Jackson, wasn't he one of the guys in that band the Jackson Six? The music industry can't sue you as long as you put it out for free. And besides right now sister disco is running the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Joad Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Johnbee58 said: So nice of you to say all of this, and yes, you can call me John.? You're so right that the music is something that when it's in you, it won't be silenced. I was talking to somebody else about this yesterday. Music is like an internal drive that, just like sleeping and eating, can't be easily suppressed. Sadly, a time will come in all of us when we'll have to give it up just due to getting too old. But I think of old Gordon Lightfoot. He had such a great and strong voice in his prime. He's 80 years old now and still singing. He struggles, but you can tell he still loves it, and his fans still love him. ? So eat, drink, and be merry, Do you mind if I call you Merry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Joad said: So eat, drink, and be merry, Do you mind if I call you Merry? No, please don't call me Merry!? There are two Joe Jacksons that are in the public light. One is Michael's father and the other is a British singer/songwriter who's had hits like "Steppin Out" and "You Can't Get What You Want Till You Know What You Want". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJwt2dxx9yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGqmiT7JJVg He just put out a new album this year called "Fool" and it has some great tracks on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvaBODjYN6Q Definitely one of my heroes. ?JB Edited June 25, 2019 by Johnbee58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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