Specific use-case scenario

[István Máté]

Hi All, I would like to describe my use case, and ask if anyone can help if I can user Cakewalk in this manner.

I have several backingtrack projects, all in Cakewalk, that are using mostly the same patches (VST). These projects are usually played live (through Dante Virtual Soundcard to an Allen&Heath SQ5 mixer equipped with a Dante card) in multichannel mode, so the mixing guy can mute the tracks, where the player is present, and also mix them live with more accuracy. My problem is, that changing between projects takes a considerable amount of time, not to mention the amount of RAM required to host the VST plugins for each project. I tried merging multiple projects into one, my problem here is, that dragging a new project in to the existing one will only paste select features at the cursor (it omits markers, tempo track), so it is a lot of work to reenter them, but doable. [feature requests: have Cakewalk insert everything into the project upon drag-and-drop]

I am currently experimenting with VSTHost hosting all the VST files, then I play back only MIDI data with Cakewalk (since it has multiple MIDI devices support) through loopMIDI. My problem here is, that I have to stop, switch, start each project. [feature request: .cwp playlist]

I am still fitting into 16 MIDI channels, if I use banks/programs, so I can use MPC-HC, VLC, even WMP to play MIDI files, with playlist(!), and except MIDI clock functionality, it works. I even can have Cakewalk act as a VST host only. My problem here is, that I have to configure Cakewalk each time I record or I use it live. I I would very much enjoy using the interface of Cakewalk, as upon recording I find very easy to set my mixing channel levels and leave the Dante sends untouched. [feature request: ability to change hardware profiles with one click or command line]

So I would like to use only Cakewalk with the least amount of extra work upon planning the project setlist.

[István Máté]

I almost got it working. Albeit I need an external MIDI loop tool, but as far it is working fairly ok.
I discovered, that saving the project as MIDI Format 1 file will save most (all?) MIDI related data, even markers, so I will keep my projects in .mid files. I then have a main project with all instruments loaded and just play the MIDI file with an external player.
I have 2 minor issues:

- importing a MIDI file to the current project will not import tempo changes (Tempo Track), Meter/Key changes and Markers
- Cakewalk as MIDI slave will not change the tempo upon received tempo changes

Am I missing something or are these bugs in the software?

[scook]

Importing a MIDI file into an existing project strips some data, by design.

Opening (File > Open) a MIDI file does not strip any data from the file.

Here is how to transfer the data stripped during import

• Open both the project and the MIDI file
• In the MIDI file
  • Select All
  • Copy Special and select the data to copy
• Paste into the project

[István Máté]

9 minutes ago, scook said:

Importing a MIDI file into an existing project strips some data to avoid overwriting data in the project.

Opening (File > Open) a MIDI file does not strip any data from the file.

Here is how to transfer the data stripped during import

• Open both the project and the MIDI file
• In the MIDI file
  • "Select All"
  • "Copy Special" and select the events to copy
• Paste into the project

Extra step, but it works. I did notice, that after import the Undo action is a Undo Paste action, so I presume, that the Import process is also a Copy/Paste process. Would be nice to have the option to choose what to import.

Anyway, thank you for your input!

[Michael Vogel]

Not sure if I understand your use case properly but are you aware that you can have multiple projects/files open simultaneously in Cakewalk. 

[István Máté]

On 7/7/2022 at 1:11 PM, Michael Vogel (MUDGEL) said:

Not sure if I understand your use case properly but are you aware that you can have multiple projects/files open simultaneously in Cakewalk. 

Yes. My issue with that is, that all the projects have the same plugins loaded, with the same samples. Having 16GB or RAM,  2-3 projects quickly exhaust all the memory.

Edited August 23, 2022 by István Máté

[István Máté]

Today I found Matrix view. Together with loopMIDI I can load a full MIDI song into a cell and have it play properly EXCEPT the tempo. Although the tempo is incorporated into the MIDI file, I cannot get Cakewalk to follow the external clock's tempo. Would be nice to have an option to play the MIDI files in the cell in their own tempo.

[scook]

9 minutes ago, István Máté said:

Although the tempo is incorporated into the MIDI file, I cannot get Cakewalk to follow the external clock's tempo. Would be nice to have an option to play the MIDI files in the cell in their own tempo.

Unlikely to ever happen.

Projects have one tempo track and tempo is stripped from imported MIDI clips.

[István Máté]

1 minute ago, scook said:

Unlikely to ever happen.

Projects have one tempo track and imported clips (that is what these effectively are) are stripped of tempo.

I know. My problem is, that I cannot alter the central tempo in Cakewalk with external clock either. So if I would like to use Cakewalk live as an audio engine with several VST plugins loaded in, then trigger some MIDI horn riffs, then everything is ok except the tempo, which I will have to adjust manually in the GUI.

[msmcleod]

I'd wondering if Cakewalk really the best tool for this job?

Although Cakewalk does have some live features, it's certainly not the tool best suited for live use - especially if you're unloading / loading large VSTi's for each song.

Personally, I'd take a look at something like Cantable, which is specifically designed for live use.  I'm not sure if the free version (Cantable Lite) has the "this synth was used in the previous song, so I won't bother unloading it and just keep it for this one" feature, but at least one of the paid tiers does.
 

[István Máté]

Valid point. I was looking into several VST Host applications, all of them had upsides, downsides. Cantabile looked promising, along with Hermann Seib's VSTHost, but none of them had a builtin MIDI player with playlist, so at this point, having already needed an external player (using Media Player Classic Home Cinema with default MIDI device patch in Windows registry together with loopMIDI), I tried setting up Cakewalk for live use. Probably the biggest selling point to me was the Console layout (like a digital mixer), ease of use through that GUI, I create all the MIDI backingtracks in Cakewalk, Sonitus FX, TH3 Cakewalk, and the other plugins being there are also a big plus. The 2 features I am missing from this setup are: setting tempo from outside and MIDI patchpoints (along with proper MIDI signal flow control to the plugins).

[Matthew Carr]

16 hours ago, István Máté said:

 I was looking into several VST Host applications, all of them had upsides, downsides. 

If you are planning to go live on a stage with a laptop/pc you need the right software setup, or be prepared to deal with some fraught times

It's not free (or particularly low cost), but gigs got a lot less stressful for me when I moved all my VST hosting over onto Gig Performer. You might find it does everything you need as it has vst hosting / memory management / setlists / and midi and audio playback - think there is a demo version you can try out for a while to check it out.

And no, I'm not affiliated in any way... just have been down the road of using Cakewalk live, and it I wouldn't really recommend using it as a VST host.

(My current setup uses both Cakewalk and GigPerformer, as I wanted to keep Cakewalk as the playback device rather than loading backing files into GigPerformer)

Edited August 1, 2023 by Matthew Carr

[msmcleod]

16 hours ago, István Máté said:

Valid point. I was looking into several VST Host applications, all of them had upsides, downsides. Cantabile looked promising, along with Hermann Seib's VSTHost, but none of them had a builtin MIDI player with playlist, so at this point, having already needed an external player (using Media Player Classic Home Cinema with default MIDI device patch in Windows registry together with loopMIDI), I tried setting up Cakewalk for live use. Probably the biggest selling point to me was the Console layout (like a digital mixer), ease of use through that GUI, I create all the MIDI backingtracks in Cakewalk, Sonitus FX, TH3 Cakewalk, and the other plugins being there are also a big plus. The 2 features I am missing from this setup are: setting tempo from outside and MIDI patchpoints (along with proper MIDI signal flow control to the plugins).

I'm pretty sure Cantabile can play MIDI files:

Cantablie Media Players