Continue, or call it a day?

[Gswitz]

When 12 track recordings bog me down, i switch to 1 stereo pair well placed and just have fun making music. 

You control how much effort you put in the different parts of the process. 

Sometimes, i think i hide behind the console. 

Playing away from mics is also nice. 

Try shifting focus before selling your instrument. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Gswitz

[X-53mph]

46 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

(BTW, I agree with you that $3500 is too much, period, to spend on a computer, but someone with the handle "Mr. Torture" might be a Mac user, in which case, hey sweet deal!)

?

????

That made me laugh out loud.

[sarine]

20 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

This is my question I ask myself everyday. I'm not a professional song writer, I don't have a full band, I'm 52 years old. There is no outlet to showcase my music and nobody cares about it anyways. I get the occasional like from a buddy, but I feel my era is long gone.

I cannot compete with bands signed to labels like Frontiers and that's the level of quality I expect from myself. I end up with hard drives full of mediocre material. 

It's a lot of work writing, performing, mixing music. So much that it takes the joy out of it. Years ago I could spend every waking moment working on songs, mixing etc. Now I have to force myself to work on it. Anyone else feel this way? Maybe it's just me and I need to give it up. How do you keep going? Where do you showcase your music? Do you get results your completely happy with? Do people actually like your stuff?

 

I don't understand what the problem is. You list very valid reasons for getting away from producing music, #1 being that apparently it makes you miserable. Still, you're interested to hear how other people "keep going". What am I supposed to say? I don't want you to be miserable.

 

20 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

Seasons of life change, if you don't enjoy it right now you can always take a break and the passion may return one day.  

This seems the most (if not the only) proper advice in this situation.

 

20 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

Every break I take just puts more distance between me and music.

Maybe you need that distance to become disentangled from your current impoverished relationship with music. Your hobby sounds like a jealous partner who's keeping you hostage by threatening to invalidate you and dissociate your past accomplishments from you, should you have the audacity to leave them to live independently (or worse yet, with someonething else).

"You'll never make it in the cold, cruel world out there! I am your only fortress! I am the only one who truly understands and appreciates you!" - then proceeds to give you a beating in form of more joyless, unrewarding labor that only amounts to yet more mediocre crap on your HDD, and what better way to wrap up domestic violence than; "I love you. You know that, right?"

You keep trying to maintain the relationship by working extra hard for it, while everyone else around you can sense that you're not happy, and that it's not actually your fault.

The moment you give up and let it go, you're going to release the tension and be free. So, to return from the awful analogy back into the real world, your now-ex partner might not be that bad - it just wasn't working out for you two. Maybe they were holding you back, or vice versa, or you had both become so stuck on old habits and patterns that the dynamics of the relationship itself had been imprisoning both of you.

Sometimes the only way to reinvigorate your relation with someone/something is to rediscover them instead of just adjusting here and there, and you can't truly rediscover something without taking distance.

 

19 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

Then perhaps it is time to move on to other things in life.  If you don't enjoy creating it then find something else.

Assuming OP's livelihood doesn't depend on music, this is sound advice. It actually is that simple, so don't make it complicated.

There's nothing inherently bad about departing, other than maybe the pain experienced by your emotional attachment from the tension exerted by distance (akin to longing, homesickness etc.).

Emotional attachments can also be considered pathological, such as in certain unhealthy relationships (especially the abuser-abused type) and hoarding syndrome. I feel inclined to think that the mechanisms of attachment to more abstract things are capable of manifesting similar pathologies, the main difference being that some such subject-object relations are even more opaque to outsiders, and even if they weren't; who's to say my attachment to Daniel Barenboim's certain interpretation of Beethoven's Waldstein Sonata is pathological, for instance? (Although it seems nearly isomorphic to relations that we could agree to be unhealthy or at the very least abnormal in more transparent cases).

 

 

11 hours ago, Tezza said:

 A false belief can be embraced by those who own DAW's that somehow they are going to create professional productions by sitting in front of a computer by themselves in their bedroom and doing everything by themselves. This false belief is also pushed by DAW sellers.

The reality is, I don't think there is any evidence that this has ever happened, even once. The media constantly pushes the idea of the single artist but the reality is there is no such thing, everyone that gets anywhere collaborates with others to create the final product.

Hard to argue with "The reality is, I don't think ..." ?  -- Doesn't make your thoughts as good as fact.

"A false belief can be embraced ..." -- That something may be falsely believed doesn't mean it can't be true.

Your assertion (the gist of it, from what I gather) is absurd and you can't possibly believe it.

The lawyer speak leaves you a lot of room to backpedal from an absurd position though, should someone decide to argue against it. I won't, because the whole thing is setup for No true Scotsman; "You have an example? Oh, but they weren't professional (didn't earn six figures) / their productions weren't professional (didn't win a Grammy) / they didn't get anywhere (maybe just a little short of anywhere) / it wasn't the final product (you used LAME to encode) / blah blah..."

[Shane_B.]

6 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said:

*6,000 word essay removed for brevity.*

"I sense something. A presence I've not felt since..."

(Sorry. I couldn't resist.)

[PhonoBrainer]

1 hour ago, Philip G Hunt said:

If you're a hobbiest, a laptop and usb-c soundcard will set you back less than 1,000 (if you shop smart).

Spending a fortune on a man cave in your 50s is a sign of mid-life crisis. ?

Whoa, hang on a sec.

I agree with much of PGH in this thread. However, let's not dismiss the obvious psychological utility of a well-timed and overly funded mid-life crisis . . .

This would not be the buying of a convertible and chasing of younger women. This is a hobby that can lead to a few moments of creative expressive happiness.

No money, though. Keep your day job.

 

To the OP, sing things yourself, learn some Melodyne if you have to, or there are other singers. Maybe fiverr.com? 

 

 

Finally, are you over thinking this??? Let the writer's block tell you to quit. If the songs keep popping up in there, and they must come out, then keep bringing them to life.

 

Thanks for this thread, very good stuff.

 

[PhonoBrainer]

Or you could just ask Mrs. torture, and do the opposite.

[Mr. Torture]

I did not intend this as a deep dive into my psyche, trying to analyze why I would continue to stay with something like a battered wife. I simply wanted to get some opinions and thoughts from others in the same boat.

 I couldn't possibly be alone in wondering why we bother recording and producing music when there is zero outlet for it. Bottom line is nobody cares about my music, I'm not sure if anyone cares about music at all anymore, unless it's something industry generated.

All I really wanted was one song that sounded pro to me, I'm not a terrible songwriter, at least I don't think I am. Even if the song was complete crap it should still sound professional. It's not like I am using lesser equipment than some pro bands that do it themselves. I have heard some pretty terrible songs over the years that sound professional, so when people say it's all about the song that's not really true, at least to my ears. Maybe I am completely wrong, that's certainly possible.

I like creating, I always have. But maybe I would be better off just playing guitar on my own, learning some new stuff and forget about recording all together.

Enough of my pity party, because nobody really cares about that either. I guess I just wish it was early 1980's again.

[Shane_B.]

2 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

I couldn't possibly be alone in wondering why we bother recording and producing music when there is zero outlet for it. Bottom line is nobody cares about my music, I'm not sure if anyone cares about music at all anymore, unless it's something industry generated.

You're not alone. There are a lot of people that feel that way. The way I see it now is you pretty much have to play live and have an online presence if you want to make any money at all. Then it snowballs and your following grows both live and online but I don't think you can start by doing just one anymore if you want to make a name for yourself.

If you want to record just to make people happy then I would recommend places like Youtube and Facebook. Maybe Soundcloud. There are some really bad artists that have really big followings at those sites and there and some really great unheard of artists too.

There is always going to be someone who can play, write, and sing better than you and there's always going to be someone worse. Expose yourself to a big enough audience and someone will like what you are doing and I think that's when you'll get your spark back. It may not be commercial and you may not touch the hearts of millions, but someone will like it and those are the people you are writing and recording for, if an audience is what inspires you.

I also think we've all had a lot of doom and gloom thrust upon us the last couple of years and we had zero control over it and that has a lot to do with how you are feeling. I know we feel very similar about all this and for sure the events of the past year have changed me in a lot of ways. I struggle to pick up a guitar, work around the house, and even leave the house now, and that's a very bad thing. The overwhelming feeling of it's the end and it's all over and I'm going to die if I set foot outside my door has truly effected me and changed me. I don't think things will get back to normal for a long time and I know that's a big part of what I'm going through now with my loss of love for music and pretty much everything else. Pretty much every smile, every joke, every funny thing I say here and IRL is forced now to try and get back to some kind of normalcy. But if I had my druthers ... well. I just hope things get back to normal ... quick.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Shane_B.

[Byron Dickens]

3 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

All I really wanted was one song that sounded pro to me, I'm not a terrible songwriter, at least I don't think I am. Even if the song was complete crap it should still sound professional. It's not like I am using lesser equipment than some pro bands that do it themselves. I have heard some pretty terrible songs over the years that sound professional, so when people say it's all about the song that's not really true, at least to my ears. Maybe I am completely wrong, that's certainly possible.

That "professional" sound doesn't come from the gear. It comes from the skills.

Edited April 14, 2022 by bdickens

[sarine]

5 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

I did not intend this as a deep dive into my psyche, trying to analyze why I would continue to stay with something like a battered wife. I simply wanted to get some opinions and thoughts from others in the same boat.

Sometimes an external perspective is what you need, just like in my analogy. You started off by laying down a solid foundation for arguing that distancing yourself from music would be the best course of action, and for all I can tell you made that case. I was confused when first you said this is a forced activity for you, and then asked tips on how to "keep going". It seemed like cognitive dissonance to me and hence I felt compelled to speculate about the presence of an element of obsession or emotional attachment to explain the glaring discrepancy between how you feel about the thing and your way of dealing with it.

Some of the best advice I received from a friend was when I was struggling with motivation in university. He said; "Have you considered... just giving up?" Well, yes, but hearing it from him, spelled out like he did in that lenient tone without a trace of judgement, legitimized it in a way that was outside my own power. It took me a while to figure it out because I was stubborn and hell-bent on persisting because I'd grown to expect (and expected other people to expect from me) academic success, but the words kept echoing in my head - and not only the words, but that sound of approval. It took me longer still to come to terms with the reality that school is not my thing at all, and it never was.

It's just an example, and that's just me, but I've made it a habit to say what I actually think instead of what people want to hear. It got me fired once, but my spine is intact and I like to think that everyone involved will go to our graves knowing I was right and acting in good faith on both factual and moral grounds, while they embarrassed themselves by lying to get rid of me and I will forever remember them for it. Would do it again.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

I couldn't possibly be alone in wondering why we bother recording and producing music when there is zero outlet for it. Bottom line is nobody cares about my music, I'm not sure if anyone cares about music at all anymore, unless it's something industry generated.

I'm kind of tired of hearing this particular sentiment because it's so out of touch with reality. Go out, talk to people. I mean; Get around the Internet sometime. Every imaginable niche has dedicated fans. It's easy to find weirdos who don't care at all about the mainstream or global culture and never leave their bubble.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

I have heard some pretty terrible songs over the years that sound professional, so when people say it's all about the song that's not really true, at least to my ears. Maybe I am completely wrong, that's certainly possible.

Of course it's not true. In this particular case it is certain that you are right.

 

 

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The question that hasn't been addressed directly is "what do you hope to get out of making music?"

For me all artistic expression is about cultivation of the soul, communicating secrets (both private and public), illuminating the dark corners of reality, celebrating life and humanity, and other such mundane grandness. It's not about recognition, fame, respect, ego, validation, etc. I wish I could say; "I wish I could say that I don't understand people who do seek things like fame and recognition, but alas, I can't, 'cause I do", but alas, I can't, 'cause I don't. If you add money in the list, then I do get it - the rest is a stupid load of rubbish.

That's why I don't care if somebody doesn't like my music; if somebody says it's crap, I can say "You're wrong. I like it. I made it so."  I do care if they do like it, because then it makes me feel connected to them on some fundamentally meaningful level. In art I can only do my own thing and hope that somebody connects with it. If I were doing some other thing focused on what I expect people to want to hear/see/feel/think, it wouldn't be art but engineering of emotional responses. That's my personal truth and arbitrary definition of art, feel free to disagree.

 

[msmcleod]

A thing I've done a few times over the years is "virtually" downsize my studio. Basically I switch off my DAW machine, all my outboard gear, and switch to either an old PC or a laptop and start with the most minimum amount of gear.

The last time I had serious blocks, I went with a master keyboard, a Yamaha QY20 pocket sequencer and a pair of speakers.  I just played around with the styles in the QY20 until I came up with something I liked, then used the internal sequencer to record stuff I played on the keyboard.  After a couple of months, I had enough material to take it back into my studio and develop it further.

Right now, I'm messing around with Band in a Box.  I'm forcing myself not to care about the fact I'm not playing all the instruments myself any more, because the simple fact is that playing everything myself takes too much time that I no longer have.  What I want is results quickly, so I can be inspired / motivated to take it the next level... and then I may consider re-recording each part myself.

Getting around the feeling that I'm seriously cheating is hard, but then (a) no-one would know apart from me, and (b) it's really just a means to an end - I'll probably re-record the parts anyhow.

Another thing about this approach is I can focus more on the song and less on the endless tweaking.  A good song is a good song whether it's played by a full band, or strummed on guitar and sung along to. It's something I constantly have to remind myself of.

But in the end all I know is, it's WAY less work, and the personal rewards come far quicker.

[Starship Krupa]

2 hours ago, sarine said:

I'm kind of tired of hearing this particular sentiment because it's so out of touch with reality. Go out, talk to people. I mean; Get around the Internet sometime. Every imaginable niche has dedicated fans. It's easy to find weirdos who don't care at all about the mainstream or global culture and never leave their bubble.

Oh this this this. One of my favorite rants, and one that I use to troll people over 50 who say "music today is so lame compared to when we were younger." (When we were younger, "You Light Up My Life" and "Havin' My Baby" were #1 singles.)

Two major reasons people develop this belief: first, we have a collective filter for crap. There was just as much crap if not more around 40 years ago, but we push those memories down because, well, who wants to remember crap? The second one, that I've never seen anyone else point out is that at some point, we stop putting as much effort into seeking out music that resonates with us. True for me, too, but I try to work against it. 35 years ago I had a job where I could listen to the radio while I worked. So 8 hours a day soaking up the local commercial alternative rock station mixed in with the local college station, and then more during my commute. Every time I drove somewhere I had the radio on, tuned to a possible source of new music I would like. Read Musician and Spin and record reviews in the local alternative weeklies. Went out to at least one show a week. Listened to recommendations from friends. I worked at finding good music for literally hours every weekday just to glean what I could that made it through the radio programmers' and record companies' filters.

So, I ask my fellow over 50er sneerers of "music today": how many hours last week did you spend actively seeking out new music that you might like? Did you even do it at all? Do you ever still do it? Chances are the only time they ever get exposed to anything current is during award shows on TV, which, duh, those shows have showcased the lowest common denominator pabulum for the past 60 years. About the time that the Rat Pack-era wound down. Every once in a while, you'll get a Prince or Elliott Smith or Arcade Fire or Eminem on one of them, which people will talk about for decades because it's so unusual.

Whatever style genre, whatever of popular music you like(d), there are people actively making it, and it's available for you to find via the blessed www. If you care as much about music as you say you do, then go fscking find some.

10 hours ago, Mr. Torture said:

All I really wanted was one song that sounded pro to me, I'm not a terrible songwriter, at least I don't think I am. Even if the song was complete crap it should still sound professional.

Okay, this we can work with. This is easier to fix than the songwriting part. This is a matter of acquiring technical skills and applying them, just like woodworking or model aircraft building. You already have all of the physical and software tools you need. You've done the harder part, learning to play instruments and write songs.

There are forums dedicated to "how do I get this sound" including this one right here. Put a link to your song(s) on them and ask the collective mind what they think of your mix and how you might improve it. For good measure, mention another song that you think does have the sound you are trying to get. You just have to be prepared for unproductive comments and criticism. There are magazines and YouTubers who regularly have people submit mixes and analyze them and give advice. Post on the Songs forum here, gives the link, and I guarantee you, everyone in this thread will go listen to it and probably give you good advice. We might even tell you that you're trippin' and that it sounds great already.

About this last, seriously, at some point, we have to take in perspective outside our own. We can have inner voices telling us we'll never be as good as the people we admire, that we're just faking it.

My first and foremost bit of advice for anyone: reference. If it's not sounding "pro," listen hard to a song you think is "pro" and pick out the areas where yours is missing the mark. There's software to help your stuff match pro mixes. Shoot, just buy Neutron and Ozone and turn them loose on your tracks. ? Right now, you can get two really great mastering tools, bx_masterdisk, and Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, for free at Plugin Alliance.

Mix engineering is a set of acquired tech skills. If you're not getting the results you want, acquire some more and practice practice practice.

Everyone who does it has struggled with this.

[Shane_B.]

28 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

So, I ask my fellow over 50er sneerers of "music today": how many hours last week did you spend actively seeking out new music that you might like? Did you even do it at all? Do you ever still do it? Chances are the only time they ever get exposed to anything current is during award shows on TV, which, duh, those shows have showcased the lowest common denominator pabulum for the past 60 years. About the time that the Rat Pack-era wound down. Every once in a while, you'll get a Prince or Elliott Smith or Arcade Fire or Eminem on one of them, which people will talk about for decades because it's so unusual.

There's a lot of great music today. I still seek out new artists. I'll be 51 in a few weeks and my neighbor who is 55 turned me on to a new hard rock group out of Springfield MO yesterday. He showed me their latest Youtube video and said he talks with them on their Facebook page and just went to another one of their gigs last weekend.

Some of the pop today is even good. I really liked some of Lorde's stuff a few years ago. She's gotten a little weird now. Even some of the EDM. Rap ... sorry. Not my thing whatsoever. But neither was classical and it's been around a few more centuries than rap. And as for Prince ... sorry, but the guy was extremely over rated. The majority of his lyrics were perverse and I have no idea how he gets the acclaim he does.

There are a lot of great new country artists that are trying to stay true to tradition. And there is a whole new take on folk and rock music. People like Sierra Ferrell, Charlie Crockett, Amigo The Devil, Jake LaBotz (I love the duet he did with Puddles, that's how I discovered him.), The Avett Bro's. People like Pokey LaFarge who do harder music plus acoustic, plus a little jazz and some pop. The same guy who did this did this and this (pg-13). There's a ton of great new talent out there and they aren't locking themselves in to one category anymore and you never hear them on the radio short of the catching the local PBS stations maybe. Check out Heilung sometime if you want something really different. I can't stop listening to them. Wish I could see them live.

There are a lot of new great artists out there that don't buy in to the digital age and making music with PRV and loops that actually perform live and sound the same live as in the studio but the self promotion deliver system has changed and they rely on the internet now to get their name out there. And it's actually better. You hit more people on the internet than you did passing out cassettes.

Who are you playing for and what is your goal? I think this is the real question we should as the OP. Are you a weekend warrior wanting to play at wineries on the weekend or the rare bar that still has bands or a local coffee house? Are you ready to deal with the a-hole copyright snitches that go to bars now and nail bar owners and bands? We used to regularly play the animal circuit but I can't tell you the last time I saw a dance or gathering advertised at an Elks, Moose, or Eagles club or a Legion hall. Them and 3 bars in our area were our regulars. All of our wedding jobs and holiday parties came from those places. Do you want to play live for a living? Do you just want to write and put your stuff out there to get some feedback like in the Songs forum here? The weekend warrior thing with no real asperation to go anywhere is about the only scenario I can think of that you wouldn't need some kind of an online presence.

[Bapu]

35 minutes ago, Shane_B. said:

And as for Prince ... sorry, but the guy was extremely over rated. The majority of his lyrics were perverse and I have no idea how he gets the acclaim he does.

If you haven't yet seen it, find the Utoob version of him soloing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. It may at least change your mind a smidgen.

[RBH]

I'm 61... I can officially say that " My get-up and Go , must a got -up and went. 

But I enjoy producing band stuff and after many years of Jazz rock - Not so Knew Age - y kind of stuff... I'm actually  getting into pretty heavy rock. It was always fun to toy with and play, but I never really got into listening to it. Now I really enjoy mind noodling about the skills it took to create a really great record on pretty limited analogue equipment. I treat CbB as close to an old tape machine as I can. Plus it's a great synth rack. I can polish the Cow Pies now that I couldn't in the past. I still mess with recordings I made in the early 90's on Cakewalk. No expectations - but just fixing little things that I couldn't in the days of tape. Back then,  at best I had 1 reverb and 2 delays and a compressor or 2 to record a 5 piece band on a 1/2" 8 track. I like what Mark said, going back and dumbing it down to the basics. Too many options means too much wasted time for me.

[craigb]

2 hours ago, Bapu said:

If you haven't yet seen it, find the Utoob version of him soloing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. It may at least change your mind a smidgen.

This was played as a tribute to George and wait until you see George's kid's expression watching Prince!

Oh, in case you didn't know, Prince can play a LOT of instruments and, during a Super Bowl Half-Time Show of all things, he ended up with a guitar with a string slightly out of tune and managed to perform perfect bending of that string so that nobody knew there was an issue!

[Shane_B.]

11 hours ago, Bapu said:

If you haven't yet seen it, find the Utoob version of him soloing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. It may at least change your mind a smidgen.

I've seen it and just checked it out again. It's good, but not great or mega-star good in my opinion. I sincerely mean this, Danny Danzi, Batsbrew, and a quite a few others here are as good if not better. That's the kind of lead Clapton, Campbell, and John5 can do in their sleep. I mentioned those names because of the similarities of music and span of decades they cover. I can respect a great guitar player when I see one and Prince is a good but I just don't get all the hype around him. He's by no stretch a pioneer like Hendrix but I think people tried to make him this generations Jimi.

Funny his name comes up. I saw a thing on Facebook the other day with side by side photos comparing other famous people to Danny Devito for height comparison. I was going to post it here because it had Prince in it but got sidetracked. Prince was only a couple inches taller than Danny Devito. I just tried to find it again and can't. In order from shortest to tallest in the pic was Devito, Prince, William Radcliff (Harry Potter) and some guy I've never seen before.

It's amazing how much Dhani looks like his dad.

[smallstonefan]

I’m 52 and gave up long ago on the idea of ever making a living from music. Fortunately the living I do make allows me to finance a great musical hobby and I am getting better at this hobby all the time through consistent effort. 
 

At times I might go a few months without doing much and I used to feel really guilty about that. I’ve built a nice studio full of great gear and I’d feel a bit of shame about not using it. I’ve learned that everything ebbs and flows. When I get into making a song I can’t stop and it is consuming so it is no surprise I burn out and need some down time. I’ve learned to accept and even appreciate this now rather than freaking out. 

For me I love to create and I love to learn. During Covid I took a number of mix with the masters classes and greatly upped my mixing skills. Whether I use them or not is almost secondary to the fact I really enjoyed acquiring them. 
 

if you still think you can make some sort of go of music as a career I urge you to take a real hard honest look at your situation;  chasing dreams past their expiration date is a really unhealthy thing. 
 

If music is just a hobby to you and you don't enjoy it I suggest waking away for six months. If you get the urge to come back great. If not then just realize everything has a season and gently let it go. 

 

This is supposed to be fun, not painful. 
 

good luck. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by James Foxall

[57Gregy]

On 4/14/2022 at 6:48 AM, Mr. Torture said:

I have a hard time justifying $3500 Plus on a new sled for a hobby that generates zero rewards.

Sounds like more than a hobby!
I have always used off-the-shelf computers that cost, at most, $500-$700 US. One, I'm cheap, 2, I ain't rich, and 3, they've always worked. I must admit I don't use a lot of soft synths or audio plug-ins, so I don't need a supercomputer.
I managed to open up the DAW and work on some of my songs this week, inspired by this thread, I think. And like a lot of other folks here, I'm kinda old (65). And retired, too. I have plenty of time to work on a lot of things, barring a visit from the Reaper.
 

[X-53mph]

4 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

...., barring a visit from the Reaper.
 

Nah! Stick with Cakewalk! ?