How to Get M-Audio Hammer PRO 88 or Oxygen Series Keyboard to Control Cakewalk

[Jesse Wolfe]

All -

I believe I have found a pretty easy solution, at least for the HammerPro88: Use Remote Control on the automation lines, combined with Preset mode on the keyboard side.

When keyboard is in DAW mode, sliders send stuff to the control surface and if you are using BITWIG setting or the controller presets worked out via AZ Controller (like @Jacques Boileau pointed me to.  However, if you click the PRESET button (next to the DAW button) then you have the keyboard in a different mode.  Now, you can assign your sliders to automation lane parameters and write automation MIDI CC data (ie expression/CC11)  into your track.

However, once I get a screenshot from Jacques, I will try to get into AZ Controller and get his patch working as it would be great to have those added features that Mackie out of the box doesn't provide.

Oh, and while I'm here, I noted that the HammerPro88 remembers what DAW you have selected when you power down, so unlike the Oxygen 61, you don't have to reselect the DAW every time you start up. I'm also noting that maybe Cakewalk fixed the issue with the Mackie rotaries using a regular ACT surface controller, as now the rotaries work correctly for track PAN.

 

[azslow3]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:09 AM, Jesse Wolfe said:

Thanks @azslow3.  I'll try the third option there to see if that will work.  However, I don't want to free up the sliders to interact with a VSTi plugin. I want to be able to modify , say CC 11 when recording automation in Cakewalk. I can't quite do it when I have AZ Controller running with a setup with @Jacques Boileau's preset where my keyboard sliders are modifying WAI track volumes.  I'm working on learning enough AZ Controller so that I can get CC11 working with my slider.  My initial attempts don't seem to be making it to the DAW.

For the 3d option to work, the slider should send CC11. It will be assigned to AZ Controller logic, so initially CC11 will not come throw but modify WAI volume (or something according to preset logic). If the control is put in the group "A" and that group is toggles, it will no longer block CC11 and so it should be usable in plug-ins. And in that case it will be be processed by AZ Controller, so will not move WAI volume.

But switching presets on the Keyboard, so control is sending something not assigned in AZ Controller, is probably simpler approach to achieve the same goal. "Groups" in AZ Controller are primary for controllers which can't switch hardware presets easily or when "advanced" logic is used (f.e. auto move some controls to/from pure MIDI mode when particular VSTi is in focus... some AZ Controller users experiment with funny configurations, may be just because that is possible ? ).

 

[Jacques Boileau]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:09 PM, Jesse Wolfe said:

@Jacques Boileau that would be great!! And if you highlight one of the sliders so I can see what you put in the details (doesnt all show on the overview) and maybe for one of the rotaries as well. Too bad those patch files are binary. I think that was a bad move on their part. If it were XML or JSON then one could build patches in a text editor.

Almost forgot! ? Here you go:

And here how I have the controller plugins setup in Cakewalk:

[Jesse Wolfe]

Thanks @Jacques Boileau, thanks for remembering!  You Rock! (or is it Roque?  ). Curious about your use of the Out Port. What can you send from Cakewalk TO your keyboard? I thought the OUT Port was only useful if you had mechanical faders that could be moved by incoming MIDI?

Another question re: your knob definition.... CC 120? Does that get mapped to Track PAN somehow in AZ Controller?

[Jacques Boileau]

10 hours ago, Jesse Wolfe said:

Thanks @Jacques Boileau, thanks for remembering!  You Rock! (or is it Roque?  ). Curious about your use of the Out Port. What can you send from Cakewalk TO your keyboard? I thought the OUT Port was only useful if you had mechanical faders that could be moved by incoming MIDI?

I think this is left from all my trial and error when I programmed this. When you create a Controller in Preference/Control Surface, it defaults to setting an output port and you can't revert to none after the fact. Probably just that.

10 hours ago, Jesse Wolfe said:

Another question re: your knob definition.... CC 120? Does that get mapped to Track PAN somehow in AZ Controller?

Yes. I did that because with the default Cakewalk behavior at the time, the full rotation of the pan knob only did half the pan rotation in Cakewalk and setting the knob in the middle did not put the Cakewalk pan in the middle. I believe with what you said earlier, this might be different now in Cakewalk?

[Jesse Wolfe]

@Jacques Boileau I am finally getting the hang of AZ Controller. Wondering... did you get the Rec Arm. , SOLO, MUTE, SELECT to actually turn off and on the keyboard fader button light to sync with the button in Cakewalk?  I notice that with BITWIG in Mackie mode the lights do not change.. they are always ON.  The only time they seem to go off an on is in native Keyboard use, when they are used to control ARP/LATCH/CHORD/SCALE features of the HammerPro88.

A few more questions, and I will be able to upload my preset to AZSLOW forum.

1. It seems the HammerPro88 has the ^ and v (shift->> and shift-<<,  respectively) but they do not seem to generate any MIDI. Did you do anything special? AZ Controller does not register any MIDI for these keys. I don't see it as a setting in the OxygenPro DAW Preset Editor, either.
2. For future readers, the Oxygen-61 daw preset.bin file on AZLOW does not load into the HammerPro88 editor. I resolved that by installing the OxygenPro61 Preset editor on my PC. I could then read all the settings and make a patch for the HammerPro88, which I'll post over in AZLOW when I get it finalized.

cc @azslow3

Edited January 16, 2023 by Jesse Wolfe

[azslow3]

Unfortunately I have not found HammerPro88 protocol documentation. User Guide mention 2 things: "Output port for LEDs in DAW mode" and "most DAWs automatically configure the device". In BITWIG, are any LEDs follow the DAW? If some do (f.e. transport), but other don't (fader buttons), M-Audio has not foreseen the feedback for particular buttons (at least not "easy" way). If no LEDs have feedback... it may be worse checking output port is set correctly. But the fact "they are always ON" point to the first case (with incorrect port they should be "always OFF").

"Most DAWs automatically..." is probably not true. In particular DAWs installation instructions they suggest selecting the DAW on keyboard and use Mackie mode in the DAW.

Theoretically they can support feedback for buttons and pads (so the possibility for a DAW control LEDs, pads colors, etc.) even in case Mackie mode is not supporting that, I mean in "native" mode. But without protocol documentation from M-Audio it is very hard (up to impossible) to deduct.

 

[Jacques Boileau]

On 1/15/2023 at 2:27 AM, Jesse Wolfe said:

@Jacques Boileau I am finally getting the hang of AZ Controller. Wondering... did you get the Rec Arm. , SOLO, MUTE, SELECT to actually turn off and on the keyboard fader button light to sync with the button in Cakewalk?  I notice that with BITWIG in Mackie mode the lights do not change.. they are always ON.  The only time they seem to go off an on is in native Keyboard use, when they are used to control ARP/LATCH/CHORD/SCALE features of the HammerPro88.

A few more questions, and I will be able to upload my preset to AZSLOW forum.

1. It seems the HammerPro88 has the ^ and v (shift->> and shift-<<,  respectively) but they do not seem to generate any MIDI. Did you do anything special? AZ Controller does not register any MIDI for these keys. I don't see it as a setting in the OxygenPro DAW Preset Editor, either.
2. For future readers, the Oxygen-61 daw preset.bin file on AZLOW does not load into the HammerPro88 editor. I resolved that by installing the OxygenPro61 Preset editor on my PC. I could then read all the settings and make a patch for the HammerPro88, which I'll post over in AZLOW when I get it finalized.

cc @azslow3

Here is what I get from pressing 'v' and '^'. It is the same in Bitwig preset or my Cakewalk preset. So no I guess I didn't change anything. But you are right, the editor does not mention or let you do anything when the shift key is pressed.

I just tried it and for the leds for Rec,  Select, Solo and Mute, no they do not light up accordingly unfortunately. They are always off. I wonder if it is possible at all to give feedback. And if at all possible, would it then follow when we move the WAI focus?

[azslow3]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:47 PM, Jacques Boileau said:

And if at all possible, would it then follow when we move the WAI focus?

If that is possible (only M-Audio knows for sure...), AZ Controller can use it (well, that has to be defined in the preset...).

Also note that with AZ Controller any button or pad (which sends messages) can be used as a "Shift" ("Ctrl", "Alt.", "CapsLock". etc.), to change what any other control(s) is(are) doing. But the button has to send something. And any knob (in finite CC mode) can be used as "N position" switch. I mean If "Shift+<<" is not sending separate MIDI message and you want extra command, you can define f.e. "Back+<<" for that (while still keeping "Back" doing "Undo" when pressing "Back" alone).

[Jesse Wolfe]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:28 PM, azslow3 said:

Unfortunately I have not found HammerPro88 protocol documentation. User Guide mention 2 things: "Output port for LEDs in DAW mode" and "most DAWs automatically configure the device". 

. . .

Theoretically they can support feedback for buttons and pads (so the possibility for a DAW control LEDs, pads colors, etc.) even in case Mackie mode is not supporting that, I mean in "native" mode. But without protocol documentation from M-Audio it is very hard (up to impossible) to deduct.

Here's the exact place in the HammerPro88 User Guide that mentions DAW LED control:
 

It is interesting that they apparently copied the info from the Oxygen Pro manual and changed detail data, but forgot to change the title!

I opened a ticket with M-AUDIO to see if we can get the protocol for it.

 

[Jesse Wolfe]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:47 AM, Jacques Boileau said:

Here is what I get from pressing 'v' and '^'. It is the same in Bitwig preset or my Cakewalk preset. So no I guess I didn't change anything. But you are right, the editor does not mention or let you do anything when the shift key is pressed.

Thanks, @Jacques Boileau! I'm not sure what happened, but today when I tried, I see AZ Controller IS showing me different MIDI between << and SHIFT-<<. So I do have use of them. Maybe I had keyboard in PRESET Mode.  Although the Preset Editor doesn't let you change it, it appears Mackie protocol (I have that set for the << and >> buttons) permits the keys to send different MIDI.

[Jacques Boileau]

1 hour ago, Jesse Wolfe said:

Thanks, @Jacques Boileau! I'm not sure what happened, but today when I tried, I see AZ Controller IS showing me different MIDI between << and SHIFT-<<. So I do have use of them. Maybe I had keyboard in PRESET Mode.  Although the Preset Editor doesn't let you change it, it appears Mackie protocol (I have that set for the << and >> buttons) permits the keys to send different MIDI.

Control surface integration is a very mysterious thing! ? I have been there!