Updated my DAW.

[CoveCamper]

Just now, RobertWS said:

You can see I did that and the link is just a link.  (also using firefox on a win10 box).

I'm also on Firefox and mine embed automatically when I copy and paste the link. There is also a tab below that asks you if you want it posted as just a link.  Do you see any tab when you post the address?

[RobertWS]

This is weird, I went back to my post, put it in edit mode, copied the link there and re-pasted it in....voila...embedded video.

Not sure what is going on...

 

I guess I'm just...untrainable.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by RobertWS

[Shane_B.]

Here's my layout this year since we're on the train thing. This is the first layout I've had since the mid 70's. We've collected the village items over the last 20+ years. We always wait till they are on sale after the holidays. Sometimes I'll buy broken stuff and fix it. Like the trolley. I got that for $5 bucks. It was a broken display model but I got it going.  (I painted the thumbnail on the video 2 years ago at Christmas while on heavy duty pain meds while recovering from surgery. I don't remember painting it ... )

Side note: Do you hear the chuff sound of the engine? It has other sound effects as well. It can be controlled with a remote that is included with the set or via a cell app. The sound system was developed by Neil Young for his son who is handicapped so he could activate the different sounds by hitting switches while moving his body. He owns a small part of Lionel now. He was always a huge Lionel train fan from what I've read about him. It's pretty awesome that he developed that for his son and it became part of Lionel history.

 

[Starship Krupa]

Well done, Shane. I can't think of an explanation where increasing the PSU wattage would result in a boot speed increase.  Unless it was putting out "dirty" power that made it so that it took the detection circuit on the muzzabo longer to give it the green light. Of course it's always good to blow the crud off of your heatsinks and fans. It's always great when the upgrades you put in jack up the performance so much.

And LOL at your "old i7 6700K DAW."? Check my sig. Adding the GTX550Ti really opened up graphics performance. ? Still, it does what I want it to do, Cakewalk, Vegas Pro. I don't feel that it's holding me back. It would be nice to have better performance, but it would just make things faster, not necessarily better.

My thing is that I rely heavily on the kindness of others when it comes to acquiring new computers. I still know enough people who work IT and facilities at big Silicon Valley companies that I can score systems that have been retired only because some executive got in a computer weenie-waving competition with the executive in the next office.

I'm good at keeping trailing edge hardware viable. Most of my projects can play back just fine on my 2011 Dell Latitude E6410, which I upgrade by swapping the i5 in it with an i7-720M. 8 virtual cores helps a lot with the stuff we do.

[slartabartfast]

On 2/15/2022 at 9:58 AM, Shane_B. said:

I didn't see any difference when I put the RAM in but when I changed the PSU it made a significant difference.

No way I can see that a change in the PSU is going to speed up a computer, but adding a dedicated graphics card certainly can. If you were using on-chip CPU graphics, you have unloaded that from the chip. If you have software that supports it, you may be shifting some of the processing to spare power on the graphics card. Of course if you just replaced a slower graphics card with a faster one, then more speed is what you would expect.

As for the faster response time of the TV vs a dedicated monitor--is your TV using compressed video? Is your monitor?

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, slartabartfast said:

No way I can see that a change in the PSU is going to speed up a computer, but adding a dedicated graphics card certainly can. If you were using on-chip CPU graphics, you have unloaded that from the chip. If you have software that supports it, you may be shifting some of the processing to spare power on the graphics card. Of course if you just replaced a slower graphics card with a faster one, then more speed is what you would expect.

As for the faster response time of the TV vs a dedicated monitor--is your TV using compressed video? Is your monitor?

AFAIK a change in PSU can improve speed if the processor is capable of overclocking and the PSU is underpowered for the system.  Some systems will recognise the lack of power and slow down the CPU accordingly.

On the other hand, an underpowered PSU can cause no end of stability issues.  I've had issues in the past with an underpowered PSU causing BSOD's at random points... and I found a resolution to a long-standing freeze issue I was seeing on one machine by slightly raising the CPU voltage in the BIOS.  It used to freeze at least once a day - it's now gone 3 weeks without issue.

[Shane_B.]

6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

And LOL at your "old i7 6700K DAW."

It's frustrating really. I have a lot of software that has to be activated and re-activated regularly via the net so I have to keep this PC on the net and I don't feel comfortable doing that after Windows 10 is no longer supported. This CPU is plenty fast enough for what I do and it's really bothering me I have to upgrade it because of their software. I still have my last 3 PC's. I hate to throw that stuff out and there's no E-recycling places around here. I have a 486 with DOS 6.22 a Pentium and an i5 650. I keep the 486 for playing old DOS games but to be honest, I can't remember the last time I turned it on. It's an old Packard Bell 486 DX2/66. 

6 hours ago, slartabartfast said:

As for the faster response time of the TV vs a dedicated monitor--is your TV using compressed video? Is your monitor?

I have no idea. The TV is a cheap little Vizio model number V405-H19. I love it. Cheap, great refresh rate, great picture quality, and it plays nice with the video card. As soon as I boot up, the TV goes in to HDR mode and stays there no hassle. 60Hz in 4KHDR mode, and 120Hz in 1080p. I can't complain about that at all. The cheapest equivalent PC Monitor in this size with a 120Hz refresh rate is a little over $1, 000. This TV was in the $200 range IIRC? It's not available anymore but I'd bet the replacement model works just as well.

4 hours ago, msmcleod said:

AFAIK a change in PSU can improve speed if the processor is capable of overclocking and the PSU is underpowered for the system.  Some systems will recognise the lack of power and slow down the CPU accordingly.

I'm thinking that it was probably due to the fact I reseated all the cables. I move this PC around a lot and I probably should have done it sooner. 

I can't believe how quiet this is. I actually ran it without the cover on the case to make sure all the fans were going. It's pretty rare the video card fans ever kick on and the PSU fan is dead silent. The case and CPU fans are on all the time and I can't hear them unless I put my head near the case.

They recommend you install the PSU with fan pointing down if you have vents on the bottom of your case and I did. I normally have the fan pointing up and that's how the PSU that came with the case was installed. It will make a rattling noise some times. At first I thought it was defective and arcing but when I lay the case on it's side it doesn't do it. Plus I could feel it vibrate when it made the noise. I'm sure it's because the fan never kicks in to high speed and is in there upside down so I'm not worried about it.

It's been running as quiet as it did without a dedicated graphics card. I'm really shocked. I know I'm only playing an older game but still, it's in true 4K HDR with all graphics settings turn as far up as they will go. Plus I have a few eye candy mod's running. I still can't believe I never even had to change the BIOS settings. I left everything set up to be optimized for DAW usage. Side note about the PSU, I got it at the right time apparently. I've been watching prices and it's jumped $70 in price.

[craigb]

It's been a few days Shane.  Have you thought about updating your DAW again?

?

[Bapu]

3 hours ago, craigb said:

It's been a few days Shane.  Have you thought about updating your DAW again?

?

I'm sure there at least 3 new CPU options available.

[Shane_B.]

10 hours ago, Bapu said:

I'm sure there at least 3 new CPU options available.

That's the ***ch about it. I was looking at the CPU's my Mobo supports. I can go one CPU higher than mine and it shows up on the Win 11 supported list last time I checked. It's the next CPU in the Mobo supported list from my 6700K. It's still selling for the same amount as some new CPU's and the speed is faster than some of the current gen i5's. It's all a scam. This PC right now is absolutely rock solid, really fast, and completely silent. It's unreal how well this thing is working. There's absolutely no excuse for them to be forcing people to upgrade their hardware. There's a lot of people po'd about it. I've seen some really good rants on youtube and on MS's forum about it. It's a scam and people know it. It may change by the EOL cycle for Win10. It almost has to. Some tree hugger needs to draw up a chart showing how evil MS is for creating all this e-waste and force them in to making Win11 work on "older" cpu's, most of which are as fast or faster than "new" lower end CPU's.

Another bit of proof it's all a scam ... Netflix is the only app I'm running that won't show movies in 4K on my PC. They have it locked and 4K isn't even an option. I pay extra for their 4K service but the 4K list won't even display on the app on my PC. After spending an afternoon going down the rabbit hole looking for a solution, I found a tech pub they released. It's my CPU. Every other service I've used will stream in true 4K HDR except Netflix. I can stream it in 4K HDR using their app on this TV that has a CPU equal to a TRS-80 with 256Kb of SRAM and 1Kb VRAM, but I can't stream from my i7 6700 with 48GB RAM with a 12GB video card capable of 8K HDR on my PC because the CPU is too old. It doesn't bother any of the other services, just them.

It's all one big giant steaming pile of ... scam.

[Byron Dickens]

Its a scam just like Android phones. There is absolutely no reason why a phone can't be updated to newer versions of Android but the manufacturers make you buy a whole new device.  Bovine Excrement!

Proof is the Google Pixel but they are so damn expensive.

Determined, I searched and searched and found two solutions: Nokia sells unlocked phones that they give you two Android version updates for. Or, if you are tech weenie enough, and have the right one, you can root the phone and install a custom ROM

[Tim Smith]

I ran into something similar with my iPad. It's new enough to have the lightening connector but too old for the most recent OS or YouTube updates.

They want us to throw the thing out and buy another one. I managed to re flash it in iTunes and it works for now to play YouTube. I still get a warning I need to update it.

When it comes to computer upgrades, this is certainly better than buying new for  PC. My C drive is beginning to fill up aside from the 4 other attached drives I use for other stuff. I think a full C drive might slow things down.

I cleaned a computer once that was working just fine using compressed air. I had it unplugged and I thought I had it grounded. After the good cleaning it stopped working. Sometimes it's best to let well enough alone if it works ok.

I'm trying to squeeze a few more years out of mine before I go for a rebuild. Sometimes it pays to wait. Other times it doesn't.

There are rich kids out there dumping their video cards because they found another one they think is better. You might snag a deal that way. You can get used monitors plenty good enough for most studios too. We won't get twisted on Win 11 for a while yet. I don't think this is an issue, at least for me it isn't.

I will probably use my old computer for something and just build a new one. I guess one of my concerns is the trend we see with computer companies weaning most of the public off of larger computers and onto smaller less powerful devices. At some point I am concerned the bigger more powerful computers will no longer be available or they will be much more expensive.

The i9 with plenty of ram and a decent setup should hold anyone for a long time. I know AMD is a bad word around these parts, but admittedly the next few years could bring some jumps in what they are offering and it might make a decision harder for a person who is leaning towards true blue Intel.

We can't ignore Apple either and anyone who has a cross platform DAW should at least consider their options. My build is still holding me fine for what I do but I see the writing on the wall. I don't buy stuff for the fun of it...well ok maybe sometimes I do.  DAWs are not something I buy lightly if I'm planning to live with it for 8-10 years. Heck I don't know if I'll even live that much longer.

[Jacques Boileau]

Does adding a graphic card instead of using the on board Intel graphic card has any significant improvement in Cakewalk? I don't use my DAW's PC for gaming at all.  But I wonder if adding a cheap passively cooled graphic card, similar in power to the Intel on board, would free up the CPU enough to make a difference. ?

[sarine]

2 hours ago, bdickens said:

Its a scam just like Android phones. There is absolutely no reason why a phone can't be updated to newer versions of Android but the manufacturers make you buy a whole new device.

The blame lays all over the field, from Google to SoC manufacturers to OEM phone vendors to phone pushers to the consumer sucking it all up. Google keeps changing Android, Linux kernel changes, and Qualcomm/MediaTek has to account for both in building a specific Android version & drivers to run on their SoC's in addition to tailoring them for different OEM implementations, and they only do it for "free" for so many months (24? 36?), and OEM don't want to pay them to support newer Android on older devices when the cellular service providers are so good at pushing new devices on their customers (at least that's how it works around here), and the SoC manufacturers don't complain that their new chips are in higher demand than extended support for older chips, and on and on it goes...

It's supposed to be changing for the better since Google tried to instill a bit more sense into the software stack by e.g. a backward compatible hardware abstraction layer and decoupling the vendor implementation from the core Android, meaning OEM don't need to change the vendor implementation to be compatible with the Android framework, and correspondingly the SoC manufacturers don't need to create different board support packages for every combination of Android+VI+SoC, and guaranteeing longer backward compatibility - with the caveat of vendors being locked to their original implementation which means no software updates for non-SoC hardware components of the device (or the vendor would be breaking the contract and have the SoC manufacturer bail out of updating the drivers).

Of course, it's not guaranteed that the extended backward compatibility made possible cost-effective by the more modular architecture and the contracts will be reflected in OEM support for their phones. ?

 

P.s. It looks like the new Google Pixel uses Google's own SoC, which would explain why they can provide support for longer (they are first-party in supporting the platform).

[Shane_B.]

8 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

I cleaned a computer once that was working just fine using compressed air. I had it unplugged and I thought I had it grounded. After the good cleaning it stopped working. Sometimes it's best to let well enough alone if it works ok.

Two things I've learned the hard way over the years is leave the PC plugged in but turn the PSU switch off and never spin the fans when blowing them out with compressed air from a can or from a compressor. You can actually create a voltage by spinning the fans and feed it back to the mobo if you spin them fast enough. I also have a wrist strap with an alligator clip on it but I can't find it. I threw it in a box somewhere years ago and swore I'd never open another PC. And here I am. I just rub my hands on a faucet, fridge handle (they always give you a good shock) and then touch the case. As long as it's plugged in and the PSU switch is off. I hold the fan blades still with my fingers or a pen/pencil. Anything nonconductive so they don't spin when I blow them out. That's all assuming your outlets are properly grounded.  If they aren't you and your PC can get fried.

EMF's can destroy data and chips too. Just touching any data cable inside your PC without your body being properly discharged beforehand can destroy it. I've told the story hear a few times about how I worked of fax machines a long long time ago. One of the big laser fax machines I worked on had a sensor to detect if the drum cartridge was in it. After a while it couldn't read it. It turned out to be the EMF between the sensor wires confusing the control board. Someone at the factory put the nylon tie straps on the wire harness too tight and the official fix was to cut the strap and that fixed it.

I may have to flip this new PSU around in my PC. That clicking is driving me nuts. From a distance it sounds like arcing but it's not. I tried laying the PC on it's side and sitting it upside down and it doesn't do it so it has to be the fan in the PSU. Half the time the fans aren't even spinning on the GPU and I still hear it so I know it's not that. I just don't feel like going through the hassle of returning it and probably getting another one with the same problem. Honestly, I've never seen a PSU with the fan pointing down, but that's what the install sheet said to do if there were vents in the bottom of the case. This is a pretty nice case I have. It came with a PSU with the fan pointing up and it has vent holes on the bottom with a filter.

There's a guy on youtube that has an entire channel dedicated to cleaning PC's. He does local drop off and every once in a while a viewer will send one in. It can make a difference. Thermal paste breaks down over time, fans get clogged with dust, dust settles on the electronics and all that makes everything run hotter. I didn't have the nerve to take the heat sink and fan off the CPU and re-paste it. Probably should have though. The guy on youtube goes as far as to take the GPU's apart and re-paste those too sometimes. Here's a link to his vids. Kind of fun to watch.

[Shane_B.]

6 hours ago, Jacques Boileau said:

Does adding a graphic card instead of using the on board Intel graphic card has any significant improvement in Cakewalk? I don't use my DAW's PC for gaming at all.  But I wonder if adding a cheap passively cooled graphic card, similar in power to the Intel on board, would free up the CPU enough to make a difference. ?

I haven't seen any improvement in my DAW performance. I thought I would when I added in the RAM but nothing has changed that I can tell.

One thing that blows my mind is how lightning fast this old game loads that I'm playing. I played it on PS3 many years ago. When you would go from one area of the open world map to another, or load a saved game, it would takes almost a minute depending on how long you played and how large the saved game files were getting. They increase in size the farther in to the game you are. It crashed constantly on the PS3 but so far I haven't had a single crash and the maps and saved games load in less than a second. I click 'Yes' to load the game, the saved game screen closes and it's loaded. It has to be less than a second. 

But as for a DAW work, I see zero performance increase. That's going to solely rely on your CPU based off what I'm seeing with this rig now.

[Tim Smith]

Another thing that takes a lot from my cpu is Windows defender. Hitting CTRL+ALT+DELETE will bring up tasks. I click on that to see where my cpu might be taking a hit. 

It's odd that only one of my cores was taking the hit while the other 5 ( 12 total in hyperthread mode) were ok.

[Tezza]

21 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

Another thing that takes a lot from my cpu is Windows defender. Hitting CTRL+ALT+DELETE will bring up tasks. I click on that to see where my cpu might be taking a hit.

If you are on windows 10, you can also right click on the bottom toolbar and select "Task Manager" from the pop up dialog box.

[sarine]

1 hour ago, Tezza said:

If you are on windows 10, you can also right click on the bottom toolbar and select "Task Manager" from the pop up dialog box.

Also Ctrl-Shift-Esc. I karate-chop Ctrl-Shift with the side of my palm and use middle finger for Esc.

[Shane_B.]

23 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

Another thing that takes a lot from my cpu is Windows defender. Hitting CTRL+ALT+DELETE will bring up tasks. I click on that to see where my cpu might be taking a hit. 

It's odd that only one of my cores was taking the hit while the other 5 ( 12 total in hyperthread mode) were ok.

You got me curious as to what was running and what it was using on my system so I took a look at Task Manager.

Window's Defender is using 0% of my CPU when I'm at idle. I tried loading Studio One and watched Task Manager. Window's Defender upped to 4% then went back to 0%. Studio One used 3.4% loading then 0% when idle. It did seem to load a lot in to memory though. I loaded a project and it appeared to put the entire thing in to memory. It used 1.6GB but was still at 0% idle.

The Brave web browser uses my GPU and it's memory. There are 3 things using the GPU on my system. The other two are generic windows runtime items. Ironically, the Nvidia background software does not run on the GPU. For a single window open in Brave it's dumping 550MB in to my GPU's memory and using the GPU's processing. It bounces up to about 3% when I'm navigating a page or opening a new tab or typing. But it falls back to 0% when idle.

I've never had a system running so lean and smooth. And for so long. It was a regular occurrence to have to re-install XP. I've never had to do anything with Windows 7 or Windows 10. I'm very happy with the system I have now. I hope they change their requirements for Windows 11 and support this CPU.