Keni Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) I’m just wondering about others' experiences with their plugins. Notably, the vSynth variety. I own the MemoryMood, OB SEM modular, and ARP2600. I’m very personally familiar with the later 2 owning/have owned hardware. I'm very impressed, but with all three, I find them so resource hungry, that even on my (modestly speaking) powerful machine, I’m forced to increase my latency almost to the point of impossible performance. I must remove (freeze) all other synths as well. I just can’t get comfortable. Typically I run Superior Drummer, VSampler (32 bit), B4 (32bit) and Amplitube (input echo enabled for live guitar) as well as adding Addictive Drums, Cakewalk's DimPro and Rapture all simultaneously at 1/4 the latency needed for one instance of the Moog by itself. My machine is a Mac Pro dual Xeon quad core (8) running at 3.06 I believe with 64G RAM using a Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface. I’m feeling somewhat frustrated as I really enjoy the sounds and abilities of these wonderful synths. Edited January 6, 2022 by Keni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 I would be interested to hear what others think as well. I have one of their synths and was considering upgrading to more. This *might* be more responded to on the instruments section of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, Tim Smith said: I would be interested to hear what others think as well. I have one of their synths and was considering upgrading to more. This *might* be more responded to on the instruments section of the forum. Thanks Tim. I considered posting there but thought it more about the synth than it’s integration in Cake. I love the sounds of these synths and they appear to model+ the hardware. I still own the remains of an SEM and have owned a 2600 in the past as well as having used many others. I feel right at home programming these synths as they feel like home... and the SEM doesn’t drift! The MemoryMode (Mood?) is stunning though I’ve only used the hardware once in my life. I get frustrated every time I decide to add one as it forces me to freeze all other synths and increase latency which is not usually convenient. I find I keep watching and waiting for an announcement that a more optimized update is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) On 1/6/2022 at 11:34 AM, Keni said: I’m just wondering about others' experiences with their plugins. Notably, the vSynth variety. I own the MemoryMood, OB SEM modular, and ARP2600. I’m very personally familiar with the later 2 owning/have owned hardware. I'm very impressed, but with all three, I find them so resource hungry, that even on my (modestly speaking) powerful machine, I’m forced to increase my latency almost to the point of impossible performance. I must remove (freeze) all other synths as well. I just can’t get comfortable. Typically I run Superior Drummer, VSampler (32 bit), B4 (32bit) and Amplitube (input echo enabled for live guitar) as well as adding Addictive Drums, Cakewalk's DimPro and Rapture all simultaneously at 1/4 the latency needed for one instance of the Moog by itself. My machine is a Mac Pro dual Xeon quad core (8) running at 3.06 I believe with 64G RAM using a Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface. I’m feeling somewhat frustrated as I really enjoy the sounds and abilities of these wonderful synths. I own those 3 synths from Cherry Audio. They seem to be low resource users here, on Windows 10. Running them standalone at idle, each synth uses approximately 2-3 % CPU, and when playing about 4-6% CPU. Very low RAM use (<100 MB). This is at 48KHz and audio buffers at 256 (5.3 ms) on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen. But no personal experience with Mac, so don't know what to suggest to improve performance or troubleshoot that. You might want to check in with the Cherry Audio Forum. It appears to be actively monitored by the Cherry developers. > https://forums.cherryaudio.com/ The only other frequent Mac user that I'm aware of here at these forums is @Fleer. Maybe he can provide some Mac oriented tips. I see that these synths are all Apple M1 compatible, so he may have one or more of them. Memorymode macOS Requirements: macOS 10.9 or above (including macOS 12), 64-bit required. Native Apple M1 processor support. Quad-core computer with 8GB of RAM recommended. Note: until now I do not recall seeing any complaints regarding CPU-hogging performance of Cherry Audio synths, in comparison with everyday gripes about other modern synths such as Arturia Pigments 3 or AAS Chromaphone 3. Depending on how heavy a patch you use on those, you can just about bring any CPU to a screeching halt. Just my 2 cents... Edited January 8, 2022 by abacab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, abacab said: I own those 3 synths from Cherry Audio. They seem to be low resource users here, on Windows 10. Running them standalone at idle, each synth uses approximately 2-3 % CPU, and when playing about 4-6% CPU. Very low RAM use (<100 MB). This is at 48KHz and audio buffers at 256 (5.3 ms) on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen. But no personal experience with Mac, so don't know what to suggest to improve performance or troubleshoot that. You might want to check in with the Cherry Audio Forum. It appears to be actively monitored by the Cherry developers. > https://forums.cherryaudio.com/ The only other frequent Mac user that I'm aware of here at these forums is @Fleer. Maybe he can provide some Mac oriented tips. I see that these synths are all Apple M1 compatible, so he may have one or more of them. Memorymode macOS Requirements: macOS 10.9 or above (including macOS 12), 64-bit required. Native Apple M1 processor support. Quad-core computer with 8GB of RAM recommended. Note: until now I do not recall seeing any complaints regarding CPU-hogging performance of Cherry Audio synths, in comparison with everyday gripes about other modern synths such as Arturia Pigments 3 or AAS Chromaphone 3. Depending on how heavy a patch you use on those, you can just about bring any CPU to a screeching halt. Just my 2 cents... Thanks abacab... Though I’m using Mac hardware. I only run Windows 8.1 under Bootcamp where is replaces the Mac OS with Windows. I find my Cake experiences quite good for many years. The machine never breaks a sweat until I add any if my Cherry synths. BTW I misquoted my specs as this machine is dual xeon 6 core (12 total). Knowing me, I’ve set it to its HQ mode if such a switch is available. I’ve been thinking of this since posting but unable to research this idea the last few days. If I find such I will lower the setting and raise it only immediately prior to freezing. That would be much easier so I’m hopeful but unable to check yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Keni said: Knowing me, I’ve set it to its HQ mode if such a switch is available. I’ve been thinking of this since posting but unable to research this idea the last few days. If I find such I will lower the setting and raise it only immediately prior to freezing. That would be much easier so I’m hopeful but unable to check yet. I've never noticed an HQ button on the Cherry synths, as some U-he synths have. What sampling rate are you running at? I typically only use 48KHz. I would think that a modeled synth would have to do more work at higher sampling rates. RAM is not so much as factor here, as CPU single core clock speed is the most important factor in VSTi performance. And per Noel, Cakewalk plugin load balancing only applies to audio FX (VST), and not to virtual instruments (VSTi). Edited January 9, 2022 by abacab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 39 minutes ago, abacab said: I've never noticed an HQ button on the Cherry synths, as some U-he synths have. What sampling rate are you running at? I typically only use 48KHz. I would think that a modeled synth would have to do more work at higher sampling rates. RAM is not so much as factor here, as CPU single core clock speed is the most important factor in VSTi performance. And per Noel, Cakewalk plugin load balancing only applies to audio FX (VST), and not to virtual instruments (VSTi). I’m running at 24/48. I tested a bit today. Loaded as only item in a CbB project. My cores are barely tapped. I can run a 256 buffer size and it performs ok as long as I don’t change patches too quickly or loop for too long. The audio gets corrupted in such cases. Gotta open it to 1024 before that goes away. This is running at default 1x sampling. Raising that rapidly diminishes performance. Interesting about no load balancing for VSTi. I didn’t know that. I wonder why? My clock speed is 3.06 and the performance meter shows cores barely touched in above scenario, but still I feel it struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 If you're feeling brave, you could always check out what those lovely people over at KVR* have got to say: Memorymode Eight Voice CA2600 * I always feel like I need a shower after a visit to KVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 12 hours ago, Keni said: I’m running at 24/48. I tested a bit today. Loaded as only item in a CbB project. My cores are barely tapped. I can run a 256 buffer size and it performs ok as long as I don’t change patches too quickly or loop for too long. The audio gets corrupted in such cases. Gotta open it to 1024 before that goes away. Have you tried running LatencyMon? https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 28 minutes ago, abacab said: Have you tried running LatencyMon? https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon No. Not sure what that would do for me here. Thanks though. My typical band runs clean is a whistle with drums, bass, one live guitar (Vamp), and keys. Most often an epiano or b3. I an add another such as DimPro, Rapture, zeta, etc still no sweat at buffer size 128. Memorymode forces me to 256 when it is all by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Keni said: No. Not sure what that would do for me here. Thanks though. My typical band runs clean is a whistle with drums, bass, one live guitar (Vamp), and keys. Most often an epiano or b3. I an add another such as DimPro, Rapture, zeta, etc still no sweat at buffer size 128. Memorymode forces me to 256 when it is all by itself. Just based on what you shared regarding low CPU usage, yet having to raise buffer size to avoid audio breakup, sounds suspiciously like DPC latency. This is often caused by a poorly executing driver that blocks the CPU from updating the audio buffer in a timely fashion - resulting in audio dropouts. By raising the buffers you are giving the CPU a bit more time to refill the buffer. LatencyMon will give a quick summary that indicates whether or not your computer is properly configured to support real-time audio. It's free, and only takes a minute to check. Well worth ruling out, at any rate. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeringAmps Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 Is there an in-depth tutorial for using latency monitor? ie: does one run Cakewalk while latency monitor is running? Or is it just a static test? We see it mentioned all the time, but never a tutorial for proper implementation, or how to read the results. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) You can just let LatencyMon collect internal Windows data while your computer is idle. No need to be running your DAW. DPC latency is NOT audio latency. A tutorial is not really needed to just get it running and receive a report. It will simply indicate at the very top whether your system is suitable for real-time audio or not. But interpreting the results can be difficult for the non-technical. Just know that if the result is green, then carry on, no worries! But if the result is red, then you may want to start with this article on DPC latency at Sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/# Quote What is DPC latency? Many audio problems on a computer can be caused by high DPC latency. But what is DPC latency? DPC stands for Deferred Procedure Call. In its purest form, it is the part of your Windows system that handles driver efficiency. If a driver takes longer than usual to process, it may prevent other drivers from being processed in time (latency). If you’ve tried uninstalling and reinstalling drivers, tried different ports and cables, and you’re still having issues, checking the DPC latency can help narrow down the core issue. Some common symptoms of high DPC latency on your Windows PC can be stuttering video playback or inconsistent performance with your peripherals (mouse, keyboard). However, the most common symptoms are audio dropouts, clicks, and popping. When you have high DPC latency on Windows, your computer’s audio drivers (either built-in system soundcards or external audio interfaces) won’t respond in time. This causes clicks, pops, distortion, and dropouts. In some cases, DPC latency can also cause a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death). Edited January 9, 2022 by abacab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, abacab said: Just based on what you shared regarding low CPU usage, yet having to raise buffer size to avoid audio breakup, sounds suspiciously like DPC latency. This is often caused by a poorly executing driver that blocks the CPU from updating the audio buffer in a timely fashion - resulting in audio dropouts. By raising the buffers you are giving the CPU a bit more time to refill the buffer. LatencyMon will give a quick summary that indicates whether or not your computer is properly configured to support real-time audio. It's free, and only takes a minute to check. Well worth ruling out, at any rate. Best of luck! Thanks abacab. From the info you supplied here I think I understand what you’re referring to. I already have latencymon here and used it a while back. I haven’t changed anything related and all was well then, but I will look again as you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Keni said: I already have latencymon here and used it a while back. I haven’t changed anything related and all was well then, but I will look again as you suggest. I took at look at your first post where you described the soft synths that you were using without issue previously, particularly DimPro and Rapture. As you probably already know, those are older technology soft synths at this point (btw, I have both, and still love the sound). Released around 2006, they were designed for relatively much lower spec machines of years past. And now they hardly even make a blip on the radar of recent PC hardware. Some of the newer soft synths just need more muscle, and it is what it is, but I am bit surprised to see Cherry Audio on that list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, abacab said: I took at look at your first post where you described the soft synths that you were using without issue previously, particularly DimPro and Rapture. As you probably already know, those are older technology soft synths at this point (btw, I have both, and still love the sound). Released around 2006, they were designed for relatively much lower spec machines of years past. And now they hardly even make a blip on the radar of recent PC hardware. Some of the newer soft synths just need more muscle, and it is what it is, but I am bit surprised to see Cherry Audio on that list! Yeah, I know the other synths are very low, but to counter that, my bass and b3 VSTis are both 32 bit running via bitbridge. But I also use arturia's minimoog which has a tiny footprint and a few free OB & Roland clones I’ve found. Although I have Kontakt player, I never use it. I have others from Air Addictive Keys free, but I typically use Lounge Lizard more often. I have some new breed synth things from a few companies giving select, limited editing patches free, but I seem to lose my patience with them as once a synth is selected, only limited adjustments available. Doesn’t work for me too often as I can’t remember which patch in which synth is what's in my head. I prefer to go to a synth of choice for sound, then create/edit the patch to my heart's desire. That's why I’m so drawn to the 8 Voice and 2600 having spent so many years programming the hardware. I’m right at home. I ran LatencyMon again and all is still comfortably in the green leaning light. I'll experiment more. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Keni said: I ran LatencyMon again and all is still comfortably in the green leaning light. Keni, good to hear that! I'm sure you will get it sorted out. I picked up the Arturia V Collection 8 last year, and I must say that's one heck of a vintage synth collection! I was never actually lucky enough to own any true analog synth hardware, so that V Collection is enough to keep me busy with for life! Plus, the Korg Collection, which is great too, that's about half analog, half digital. But the Cherry Audio synths are probably the best bang for the buck! I picked up my first synth in 1985, and it was a digital CZ. I had just finished with a store demo of a Roland Juno something or other, and the sales rep pointed out the gee-whiz technology of the CZ, and the price point was a couple hundred lower. So I got sucked in by a couple of extra voices, patch memory, and MIDI connectivity. Looking back, I probably should have grabbed that Juno, ha! But down the road it was digital ROMplers for me from Korg, Roland, and Alesis. Now I am completely amazed at what you can get in the virtual synth world. Not enough hours in the day! And I had to build a new PC last year just to keep up... All the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Dickens Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Hmmmm... Right now, I have a project in the works with 5 or 6 instances of Voltage Modular and my computer doesn't seem to be breaking a sweat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, bdickens said: Hmmmm... Right now, I have a project in the works with 5 or 6 instances of Voltage Modular and my computer doesn't seem to be breaking a sweat. I haven't noticed Cherry Audio synths to be resource hogs, compared with other current synths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 12 hours ago, bdickens said: Hmmmm... Right now, I have a project in the works with 5 or 6 instances of Voltage Modular and my computer doesn't seem to be breaking a sweat. I have that one too, but I’ve not really used it much yet to notice. I’m glad so many people are having better time with these than I. Fills me with confidence that one day, here too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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