converting plug-ins from Cakewalk 4 & 6

[Rob Heflin]

Several years ago I did a bunch of recording using Sonar Home Studio 4 (and a little bit on version 6). Now I'm using Cakewalk by Bandlab and while I can generally import my old songs from bundle files, not all of the effect & plug-ins import (or I guess it would be more accurate to say that these effects & plug-ins don't exist in Bandlab). Please see the image for a examples of what doesn't import or can't be found.

My primary question: What would be the best approach for me to find a substitute for the EDIROL VSC? As I recall from those years ago, this synth was very easy to use, had lots of cool sounds, and in listening to my mixdowns from way back, I was pretty happy with the sounds I ended up using. The tracks and notes are still there, but they need a synth to be assigned to them. So basically, I don't want to have to start from scratch on these synth sounds. I'd simply like to assign a plug-in and have the same or very similar sounds play out.

Secondarily, I'm wondering if there is an easy way to deal with all of missing effects (chorus, reverb, delay, etc.). I'm aware that I can assign different effects that come with Bandlab (or get additional external effects), but I'd prefer to start at lease close where I left off. For example, rather than starting from scratch in applying reverb, delay, chorus to vocals, I'd like to start with a baseline of the effects levels where I left off. At least close to that. Is that possible?

Finally, somewhat related... I did all of my previous recording using EZ Drummer. Now, with Bandlab I'm using EZ Drummer 2. For the most part, when I import old tracks the drums translate fine. However, there are some instances where a high-hat in the old version translates to a crash symbol in EZ2. Rather do an insane amount of editing on the piano roll, is there an easy way to deal with this?

Thanks in advance. And apologies is if this is posted in the wrong forum (it's my first post).

[scook]

In SONAR, Edirol VSC was replaced by TTS-1. CbB includes TTS-1.

Of the rest of the 32bit DX plug-ins mentioned above a few were ported to 64bit by Cakewalk but were dropped from their product lines before BandLab bought Cakewalk. It is extremely unlikely BandLab will go to the expense of releasing these plug-ins.

Missing 32bit DX plug-ins is a common issue when transitioning to a 64bit DX host. Unlike VST, there is no 32-to-64bit bridge software for DX plug-ins.

One way to ease this transition is install a 32bit DAW to load the project completely and swap out the 32bit plug-ins for plug-ins that have both 32 and 64bit versions. Once the plug-ins were swapped, the project should open completely in a 64bit DAW.

The process is not going to get any easier as the move to 64bit DAWs started around 17 years ago and many manufacturers have stopped offering 32bit software entirely.

[Starship Krupa]

Without access to the original plug-ins (and what that would mean would be opening the project in an older Cakewalk DAW)), then screen capping the plug-ins' UI's so that you could copy the numbers over), there is no way I know of to duplicate their settings short of listening to a render of the last mix you did and figuring it out by ear.

On the bright side, I'll hazard a guess that your mix engineering skills have improved since the days of Home Studio 6 (and BTW, that product wasn't "several," it was  "many" years ago, you can't fool us ?). If so, you'll likely be able to make better choices in how you set those FX up (and the FX you'll have available will likely have better sound than the ones that came with HS6). Maybe you'll decide that the huge chorus you used back in the '90's should be replaced with something else? Or doubled down on, whatever your taste.

If the projects were already as you wanted them, would you want to open them in Cakewalk? If you're going to work on them, maybe they'll work out better  with newer techniques and tools.

With your drum kit instrument issue, on the other hand, Cakewalk has a feature available called Drum Maps that should allow you to set up and save a new drum map and remap the note number(s) for your hi hat and/or crash. Then you can call it up in any project where you need to shuffle the note numbers and sounds around. Drum Maps were made for the kind of thing you're doing, they act as a translator for these cases. There's a learning curve on getting one's head around them, but basically what they do is take in note numbers from a MIDI track and assign them to note numbers and instrument names in a synth (which may be the same number, we hope, for most of them).

Edited December 26, 2021 by Starship Krupa

[DeeringAmps]

@Rob Heflin Old projects, missing plugins; its always a nightmare.
(Timeworks pops up every once in a while, that rattle some old memories; eh?)
As to your EZDrummer issues, if you are comfortable using drum maps, you can reroute notes in the map.
Save an existing map, say EZD Old, and change the output on the problem note.
You can PM if you need some help...

t

[Rob Heflin]

Lots of great info, fellas. Thanks to all three of you. Time to dig into all of this!!! ?

[Rob Heflin]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:58 AM, DeeringAmps said:

@Rob Heflin 
As to your EZDrummer issues, if you are comfortable using drum maps, you can reroute notes in the map.
Save an existing map, say EZD Old, and change the output on the problem note.
You can PM if you need some help...

t

OK, ya I need help with maps. I have a very general but sketchy idea of what drum maps are, but I don't fully get it yet.

For background, when I programmed my stuff on the original EZ Drummer long ago, I seem to recall that it was a traditional kit, with two toms atop the kick, and one floor tom, plus two crash cymbals (and snare, hat and ride, of course). Now, in EZD 2, my only options appear to be the Modern kit, which is too busy for me (too many toms, too many crashes), or the Vintage kit which is close to what I want but is one tom short.

Given that, if there is a way to get the kit I want from the original EZD, then that would be great. If not, I guess I would prefer to use the Modern kit in EZ2, ignore the add'l crashes and toms, and have mapping help me get from where I was with EZD 1 to where I want to be with EZD 2. Hopefully that makes sense.

I've searched for some videos on mapping, but I haven't found anything that addresses what I'm looking for. It's about mapping electronic kits, or using Reaper or some other program.

Any videos and/or other instructions that you can point me towards or provide would be very much appreciated.

[reginaldStjohn]

How about these.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=DrumEditor.04.html

 

 

[DeeringAmps]

1 hour ago, Rob Heflin said:

the original EZ Drummer long ago, I seem to recall that it was a traditional kit

The Pop Rock Kit sounds like.
Did you upgrade EZD 1 to EZD 2? 
If so, you should still have the Pop Rock Kit.

There is a thread here where James Argo posted some EZD drum maps.
Cursor down a bit, included is a multi-out cwp file as well.

HTH,

t

[Rob Heflin]

7 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

The Pop Rock Kit sounds like.
Did you upgrade EZD 1 to EZD 2? 
If so, you should still have the Pop Rock Kit.

Well, not sure what you mean by upgrade. Yep, I upgraded in the sense that I used to use EZD 1 and now I'm using EZD 2, but I did not actually upgrade on the same machine. IOW, EZD 1 was on a no-longer-used machine. EZD 2 is on my current DAW... Assuming that's why I don't the EZD 1 kit that I was used to (Pop Rock Kit?), is there any other way to add it to EZD 2?

[Rob Heflin]

9 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

 

duplicate

Edited December 28, 2021 by Rob Heflin

[Rob Heflin]

I watched and re-watched the video ("How to Use Drum Maps in Cakewalk by Bandlab" - suggested by reginaldStjohn: Thank you!). I was able to save a drum map (EZStandard Kit) from James Argo's zip file (thanks, DeeringAmps, for pointing that out), get the drum map appear to appear in the piano roll of the midi track (just as Mike indicates in the vid). However, exactly what to do with each of the input and output selections isn't clear in the video, and I'm assuming I have something wrong because, although I have the map in place on midi track, unlike in the video, I am unable to get sound from this track. It seems the sound plays from the instrument track, but not the midi track.

More detail which hopefully explains what I mean:

So, around the 7:50 mark of the video he describes how to change the Out Port. However, he doesn't really go into the decision-making process on this. In my case, my Out Port choices are:

1-my recording interface
2-EZdrummer 1
3-EZdrummer 2
4-EZdrummer 3

(I have no idea why I have 4 EZD choices and not 1 or 5 or three dozen...). The default, when I add the EZDrummer Standard Kit as a preset (in the preferences section, as shown in the vid around 7:50) is 2-EZdrummer 1. So I went with that.

Around the 9:30 mark of the video he shows how to assign the drum map to the midi track. To do this, he changes the output dropdown for the midi track to the drum map he added earlier. So in my case I selected DM1-EZStandard Kit from the output dropdown of the midi track. What I don't know is what I should select for the midi track input, or for the instrument track input & output. These are my options for those:

INSTRUMENT TRACK
Input - None, All External Inputs, All Inputs, EZDrummer 1, EZDrummer 2, and Virtual Control. Each of these has the exact same sub-selection including Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1 thru Midi Ch. 16.
Output - my recording interface, Master, Metronome, Preview, other busses I've created, Selected Track Outputs, and four "New" selections (stereo bus, surround bus, aux track, patch point...)

MIDI TRACK
Input - exact same choices as the Input of the Instrument Track...
Output - the choices I listed above in green. , plus the drum map I added DM1-EZStandard Kit, New Drum Map, and Drum Map Manager. In this case, it's pretty clear according to the vid that I'm supposed to select the DM1-EZStandard Kit.

When I go to the piano roll for the midi track, I see the drum map. If I click on a kit instrument on the map, I hear nothing, but I do see that it registers on the midi track's level meter. If I go to the piano roll for the instrument track, I do not see the drum map (I see the default vertical piano, as I usually do). If I tap on a piano keys, I hear drum sounds (that also register on the instrument track's level meter).

I've tried various combinations of these I/O fields plus the dropdown for the Out Port when I add the map... However, the possible number of combinations is near-endless, so that approach is kind of "needle-in-a-haystack." In addition, I've tried to find something on Youtube that specifically explains the two tracks (midi & instruments) and how to select the correct ins & outs. No luck yet.

I should add that in all of my previous recording (from way back with Cakewalk 4 & 6, and now with BandLab), I place my EZD drum patterns on the instrument track, not the midi track. Why? Simply because that's the way I get drum sounds from EZD / so that's the way I've always done it. So the behavior I'm seeing is not really unexpected, but it is a problem because that doesn't appear to jibe with being able to use a drum map.

Any suggestions?

[DeeringAmps]

Rob, send me the cwp file , let’s see if I can route it properly. 
Do a “save as” “EZ Test”, delete all audio, save. Upload the cwp via a personal message. 
Let’s see if I can route it correctly and get you going. 

[DeeringAmps]

As to the Pop Rock kit. 
IIRC, it was an EZD1 kit, default maybe?

It shows up in the Product Manager as an “owned” kit. I believe that is because I purchased EZD2 as an “upgrade”. New users can buy Pop Rock. 
I think I have this right, so did you buy a full license?

tom