Auto Save vs Versioning [Solved]

[Bill Phillips]

Up until now I'd thought that the auto saved versions were added to the revert list but they are apparently not. Shouldn't they be or why not? Otherwise, using auto save appears to be more awkward that using the revert option which includes only manually saved versions, something that isn't clear to me in the documentation (see copy in screenshot of pdf RG version 27.04.00). I've been using Cakewalk for a long time (since SONAR 4), but obviously haven't needed to use project recovery very often recently, which is good; but now that I am using it, I'm finding that my understanding of advanced file save options is wrong. My Cakewalk Preferences>File>Advanced options are shown in the Preferences screenshot.

Here's what happened: I was just tweaking settings on VX-64 plugins on duplicate channels in Cakewalk 2021.11 Build 010 and it crashed preceded by some audible hissing then blink gone.  I reopened the project after the abrupt exit and it seemed fine except recent tweaks weren't included. So I closed it with the idea of reverting to the most recent auto saved version since I hadn't manually saved during this session. As luck would have it Cakewalk auto saved less than a minute before the crash. So I wanted to use that auto saved version. It's visible in the file list in the upper left corner of the Cakewalk screenshot. However, when I selected File>Revert, the last available version was on 10/31 as shown in the Revert screenshot. And if I just open the recent auto saved version that includes most of my lost work, it's name includes the auto save text. I'd thought that the auto saved versions would be added to the Revert list but that's apparently not true.

From my experience just now and what's somewhat vaguely described in the documentation: I opened the auto saved version and saved it as the current version that had crashed. That worked and added the current version to the revert list. The last screenshot shows the project folder after I'd opened the latest auto save version and manually saved it as the project (ends in TEMP3) that crashed. I checked and the new manually saved version was also added to the revert list confirming that only manually saved versions make it onto the revert list.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Bill Phillips

[scook]

8 hours ago, Bill Phillips said:

Auto save saved me some tedious work but it's awkward. Seems like it was an afterthought and not integrated into versioning.

Auto-save relies on the program to determine when a project snapshot should be taken.

Versioning relies on the user to tell the program when it is time to create a version.

If auto-save stored in the versioning system, it may be full of copies made over too short a time possibly removing the last "good version" a user manually saved.

The same could happen if one constantly manually saves the project with too small a number of versions to keep

If one wants to retain frequent "versions" for some projects and not blowout the "number of versions to keep" setting for all projects, one method is File > Save Copy As (may be bound to a shortcut) in the current project folder giving the saved projects meaningful version-like names. Although, I would not use the versioning system naming scheme.

 

 

 

[Promidi]

I just use Versioning (last 5).  Autosave for me, very intermittently, attempted to do the save when I was doing an intentional save - resulting in a corrupted CWP file (had to restore from previous version)

I have mapped F2 to Save so I just have to tap F2 every so often.

Versioning has actually saved my kaboose more often than Autosave ever would have.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Promidi

[John Vere]

There was a time back a few years ago (5?) when Cakewalk was  crashing for lots of people if you didn’t save it after so many changes. 

They seem to have fixed that. But back then I just saved every 10 minutes or so. I thought auto save would be the answer but I still got crashes and then I would be lucky to figure out where and what had been recovered. My folder became very messy with copies. 
I found it easy to just save. I think I used ctrl S 

But I haven’t had Cakewalk crash for a long time so I’ve gotten careless and go hours with out saving. I need to stop doing that ?

[Terry Kelley]

I've developed muscle memory to do a ALT-F-S or CTRL-S very often. I will add a letter or number to the file if I need to keep an older version.

Anytime I am about to try something I know will likely crash, I save a version. It's fast and it's free. I won't touch V-Vocal, TTS-1 or Sonitus Reverb without saving first and then I save often as I work through it.

[Promidi]

1 hour ago, Bill Phillips said:

How does ALT-F-S work? 

By Default, ALT-F brings up the File menu > then S does the save....

On mine, I have assigned ALT-F to something else all together....(Edit | Select by filter)

[John Vere]

I think in the computer world that there’s mouse people and keyboard people. I’m definitely a mouse person. I have to force my self to remember keyboard shortcuts are probably faster .  But are they. 
So by nature my right hand and the mouse pointer flys to the file menu and hits save in a nanosecond long before my brain realizes I’ve done it and could have given my left hand something to do. I just can’t do two key stoke commands because I’d have to let go of the mouse and my world would fall apart. 
But I’m learning. 
It hurts to use my right hand right now because I just had my right shoulder full replacement. I’m in a sling. So I’ve been trying to learn more keyboard stuff.  
Trying to use a mouse left handed goes as well as trying to play a guitar that way.  
 

[Bill Phillips]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

But I haven’t had Cakewalk crash for a long time so I’ve gotten careless and go hours with out saving. I need to stop doing that 

Me either until yesterday with 2021.11. That's what got me into looking into the differences between auto save and versioning.  Auto save saved me some tedious work but it's awkward. Seems like it was an afterthought and not integrated into versioning.

[John Vere]

At the time I was blaming it on my beloved 32 bit MrTramp. I stopped using it but have since opened and worked on many projects that have it with out issues.

I only use the tts1 as a opener for download midi files and in my tutorials. But it still lurks in older projects and not aware that it has ever crashed. 
But I have had the issue we’re it crashes a busy project if you try and add it later on. no loss. If I find it in an older project i replace it immediately which is always an improvement 

[Terry Kelley]

Not me! I love the punishment! Hurt me TTS - hurt me!

Ok, yeah, I tend to veer away from TTS-1 for the most part but there are some sounds that I like to use. I'll freeze as soon as I can. I don't recommend anyone using TTS or even speaking it's name.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Terry Kelley

[Bill Phillips]

6 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

I've developed muscle memory to do a ALT-F-S or CTRL-S very often. I will add a letter or number to the file if I need to keep an older version.

Anytime I am about to try something I know will likely crash, I save a version. It's fast and it's free. I won't touch V-Vocal, TTS-1 or Sonitus Reverb without saving first and then I save often as I work through it.

Thanks. I've got a much more haphazard process that I need to refine. ?

[Bill Phillips]

6 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

I've developed muscle memory to do a ALT-F-S or CTRL-S very often. I will add a letter or number to the file if I need to keep an older version.

Anytime I am about to try something I know will likely crash, I save a version. It's fast and it's free. I won't touch V-Vocal, TTS-1 or Sonitus Reverb without saving first and then I save often as I work through it.

How does ALT-F-S work? 

[user 905133]

deleted

Edited November 4, 2021 by User 905133
I decided to let the TTS-1 bashing stand without reiterating that it works consistently for some of us

[Bill Phillips]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

10 hours ago, scook said:

If auto-save stored in the versioning system, it may be full of copies made over too short a time possibly removing the last "good version" a user manually saved

What I'm seeing is that auto-save doesn't create multiple versions. Each auto-save overwrites the existing one. So the latest auto-saved copy is the only one. Now that I understand that, I like it. If I forget to periodically save, auto-save might save my butt as it did on this most recent crash.

10 hours ago, scook said:

If one wants to retain frequent "versions" for some projects and not blowout the "number of versions to keep" setting for all projects, one method is File > Save Copy As (may be bound to a shortcut) in the current project folder giving the saved projects meaningful version-like names. Although, I would not use the versioning system naming scheme.

I do all three. I have auto-save enabled every 10 minutes or 10 changes. I keep 20 versions and I File>Save>Copy As in the same folder so that there's no need to copy audio files. Over time I'll collect 20 versions of various Save-As versions. My plan is to periodically delete versions of now outdated Save-As versions.

[Bill Phillips]

10 hours ago, Promidi said:

By Default, ALT-F brings up the File menu > then S does the save....

On mine, I have assigned ALT-F to something else all together....(Edit | Select by filter)

Thanks for the reminder about the menu keyboard shortcuts. I'll start using them while it's fresh in my memory.

[Bill Phillips]

10 hours ago, John Vere said:

I think in the computer world that there’s mouse people and keyboard people. I’m definitely a mouse person. I have to force my self to remember keyboard shortcuts are probably faster .  But are they. 
So by nature my right hand and the mouse pointer flys to the file menu and hits save in a nanosecond long before my brain realizes I’ve done it and could have given my left hand something to do. I just can’t do two key stoke commands because I’d have to let go of the mouse and my world would fall apart. 
But I’m learning. 
It hurts to use my right hand right now because I just had my right shoulder full replacement. I’m in a sling. So I’ve been trying to learn more keyboard stuff.  
Trying to use a mouse left handed goes as well as trying to play a guitar that way.  
 

I'm like you but working hard to use more keyboard shortcuts. I've now got a mouse and a kensington trackball, both active. I want to use the trackball to eliminate arm motion but I'm under impressed with kensington. I think the software is flaky. Initially I couldn't get it to work using the latest software version. Kensington tech support had be revert to an older version which definitely help. But, sometimes it won't start and I have to pull the USB fob and re-insert it. Sometimes the pointer becomes really sluggish for no reason and then it gets better. Even though it's less than a month old (and cost $95) I've cleaned the cradle several times but that doesn't seem to make a difference. And then there's my ability to point accurately with it. I tend to use my index finger or the index finger and ring finger. Both will start to wobble when I'm trying to hit a small target. Using the ALT key slows that down some.

Sorry about venting the sob story.

[Terry Kelley]

The only reservation I have about Auto-Save is that I am trying to avoid losing some work. When it saves isn't tied to what I am doing so I just got in the habit of saving before I change or add something. If there is a crash I can just go back to that last save. And you can save while it's playing in case terror strikes you after you hit the spacebar.

I do wish the last save before the crash was in the recent file screen. It appears I have to exit CW nicely (not crash) for it to show up. I figure that if I saved it, odd are I would want to recall it first thing in most instances. Not a big deal though - I just have to find it via Existing.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Terry Kelley

[John Vere]

Movie Studio (Vegas?) has a auto save that seems invisible and works really well for me. It must be a default setting as I’ve never set it up.
But just last night I managed to freeze it up and had to close using task manager. To my surprise when I restarted I had only lost about 5 minutes of editing.  
This topic made me think that I need to actually look into the settings and find out what they are. 

[scook]

3 hours ago, Bill Phillips said:

14 hours ago, scook said:

If auto-save stored in the versioning system, it may be full of copies made over too short a time possibly removing the last "good version" a user manually saved

What I'm seeing is that auto-save doesn't create multiple versions. Each auto-save overwrites the existing one.

That's right because auto-save is not not part of versioning.

My reply was an attempt to explain the differences in the two features.

 

 

[Bill Phillips]

4 hours ago, scook said:

That's right because auto-save is not not part of versioning.

My reply was an attempt to explain the differences in the two features.

 

 

Yes. You clarified the differences for me. Thanks. 

[Bill Phillips]

11 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

The only reservation I have about Auto-Save is that I am trying to avoid losing some work. When it saves isn't tied to what I am doing

Auto-save is not synced to what you're doing but I don't recall it causing me a problem though I suppose it might if it saved while I was recording or rendering. 

11 hours ago, Terry Kelley said:

I do wish the last save before the crash was in the recent file screen. It appears I have to exit CW nicely (not crash) for it to show up. I figure that if I saved it, odd are I would want to recall it first thing in most instances. Not a big deal though - I just have to find it via Existing.

Well if you're using versioning,  and go to File>Revert, you'll be able to select anyone of the saved version available. I'm not at Cakewalk so I can't verify the command.