User-created arpeggiator patterns?

[Starship Krupa]

Question 1: the Reference Guide talks about how we may save arpeggiator presets, but doesn't go into any detail on how to possibly create our own custom patterns. Am I missing something? Is this possible to do (within a reasonable definition of "possible").

Question 2: legend has it that there was once a set of over 500 user-created .arp files called "Alesion ARP Presets.zip." I can find the page on the old Cakewalk Inc. site that used to host it for download by Project5 users, and I can find a reference to it on this site that also has the same patterns in .ptn format. I can even laboriously load the .ptn files that are available into the Cakewalk arpeggiator and use them, one at a time via multiple open dialogs.

However, I can't find the file itself. I'm sure there's someone who has it or knows where I can find it. I've been messing about with arpeggiators lately and would love to have 500 more patterns to play with and/or be able to create my own custom ones for use in Cakewalk.

[scook]

15 hours ago, pwalpwal said:

PTN format is from Project5 (RIP) and other than the bakers i believe that's the only way to make your own? (cmiiw)

Yes, PTN files and the ARP files created from them were made using Project 5.

PTN and ARP playback was added to SONAR but it never got the editor.

On 10/21/2021 at 8:31 AM, Starship Krupa said:

Question 2: legend has it that there was once a set of over 500 user-created .arp files called "Alesion ARP Presets.zip." I can find the page on the old Cakewalk Inc. site that used to host it for download by Project5 users, and I can find a reference to it on this site that also has the same patterns in .ptn format. I can even laboriously load the .ptn files that are available into the Cakewalk arpeggiator and use them, one at a time via multiple open dialogs.

However, I can't find the file itself. I'm sure there's someone who has it or knows where I can find it. I've been messing about with arpeggiators lately and would love to have 500 more patterns to play with and/or be able to create my own custom ones for use in Cakewalk.

I have no idea if the original file is still available on the internet or not.

I do have the ARPs installed but it came from a large collection of customizations that get copied from machine to machine. 

Found a copy of "Alesion ARP Presets.zip" in a snapshot of one of my old PCs incoming files folders made in Aug 2007.

The file is now on my Google page under presets.

 

[Chip Cooper]

I can't believe no one responded to this; I'm fairly new to Cakewalk; and so I just started playing with the Arpeggiator. I found it pretty simple, at least with the current version of cakewalk.  What I did was play with settings until I got something I wanted to keep; then I clicked presets, and save... later, in another project I just went back into presets and the preset I saved was listed, loaded it and there ya go.. Bob's your uncle! It was the same settings that I saved. Seemed pretty straightforward to me, not sure what more I could say; but if you have a question, I'd try to answer. ?

[rsinger]

I'm all for an arp editor, but I will point out that cthulu is only $39.

https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu

 

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, Chip Cooper said:

What I did was play with settings until I got something I wanted to keep; then I clicked presets, and save... later, in another project I just went back into presets and the preset I saved was listed, loaded it and there ya go

Yes, indeed, as I said in my original post:

On 10/21/2021 at 6:31 AM, Starship Krupa said:

the Reference Guide talks about how we may save arpeggiator presets, but doesn't go into any detail on how to possibly create our own custom patterns.

Patterns. Patterns are what I want to be able to create, alter, save, share, etc.

Presets, which are the various settings of the arpeggiator including whatever pattern you have selected, work fine. They are as straightforward as you found them to be.

Nobody answered because the answer to my questions is "no." We can't create our own custom patterns unless we have access to an old copy of Project 5. And nobody has a copy of the file Alesion ARP Presets.zip. Not even the Wayback Machine.

[Canopus]

2 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

And nobody has a copy of the file Alesion ARP Presets.zip. Not even the Wayback Machine.

Didn’t you notice that scook supplied a link to that file in his post? I have previously also been looking for that zip all over the internet and the Wayback Machine but always hit a dead end, but thanks to Steve it's now downloaded.

[Starship Krupa]

3 hours ago, Canopus said:

Didn’t you notice that scook supplied a link to that file in his post?

I did not. Thanks for pointing it out! Steve is the Keeper of Lore and I usually make every effort to absorb what he says.

[rfssongs]

17 hours ago, rsinger said:

I'm all for an arp editor, but I will point out that cthulu is only $39.

https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu

 

Blue arp is free. But something built right into cakewalk is more convenient and usually easier to use.

[Chip Cooper]

17 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Yes, indeed, as I said in my original post:

Patterns. Patterns are what I want to be able to create, alter, save, share, etc.

Ah, my noobieness is showing... OK, I think I understand... for example, I was trying to figure if the arp can output the modded midi to a track, so I can remove a few of the notes manually... couldn't seem to do this... So, when talking about patterns, is that what you mean... the underlying part of the software that are the rules that say what notes to add/where?   I'm making an educated guess because coding I know... it's making music (other than an actual instrument) that I don't know much about. ?

So, is that possible, output the results of the arp to a midi track... (audio seems to be a piece of cake) but much harder to edit... well, for me anyway.

ZMC

[rfssongs]

So, is that possible, output the results of the arp to a midi track... (audio seems to be a piece of cake) but much harder to edit... well, for me anyway.

 

For a cakewalk Arp - right click & bounce to track.

[Chip Cooper]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:54 PM, scook said:

The file is now on my Google page under presets.

How would I use these; is there a particular Cakewalk folder where I would place them?  Or is there another method... (noob but learning! ?

[scook]

3 hours ago, Chip Cooper said:

Ah, my noobieness is showing... OK, I think I understand... for example, I was trying to figure if the arp can output the modded midi to a track, so I can remove a few of the notes manually... couldn't seem to do this... So, when talking about patterns, is that what you mean... the underlying part of the software that are the rules that say what notes to add/where?   I'm making an educated guess because coding I know... it's making music (other than an actual instrument) that I don't know much about. ?

So, is that possible, output the results of the arp to a midi track... (audio seems to be a piece of cake) but much harder to edit... well, for me anyway.

ZMC

see my reply in your thread

 

[scook]

5 minutes ago, Chip Cooper said:

On 8/16/2022 at 12:54 PM, scook said:

The file is now on my Google page under presets.

How would I use these; is there a particular Cakewalk folder where I would place them?  Or is there another method... (noob but learning! ?

There is a brief explanation of how to install the ARP presets on my Goggle page.

[Xoo]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:54 PM, scook said:

Yes, PTN files and the ARP files created from them were made using Project 5.

PTN and ARP playback was added to SONAR but it never got the editor.

I have no idea if the original file is still available on the internet or not.

I do have the ARPs installed but it came from a large collection of customizations that get copied from machine to machine. 

Found a copy of "Alesion ARP Presets.zip" in a snapshot of one of my old PCs incoming files folders made in Aug 2007.

The file is now on my Google page under presets.

 

Thanks for this: I keep "forgetting" to make use of the arpeggiator, but this made me revisit it, and one of these patterns turned out to be just what a new track I'm working on needed.

[azslow3]

I have a  question about patterns. May be someone who used Project 5 can remember.

Do they have some "extra" functionality in comparison to normal MIDI clips?

I mean "real" patterns in other programs have many "extra properties". F.e. some notes don't change position when the pattern is transposed, other stay in tune, etc.
Are some Cakewalk patterns also have similar properties?

And now why I am asking... I have create my first PTN file (just for fun... to check I can...). So it is possible convert MIDI into PTN/ARP (and back). But there is way more information in PTN then I can understand, and since I don't have Project 5 I can't check it influence  (or influenced) something or that are "historical" chunks which are not used by Cakewalk.

PS. PTN/ARP files are in "Cakewalk format" (like CWP files). The conversion is NOT packing binary MIDI file into an "envelope". I mean don't waste you time in attempts to reproduce my successful test ?

[rfssongs]

If you get BlurArp (it's free) you will get a better understanding about the kinds of things that Arps can do. Even if you don't continue to use it you will get a better feel. Yes they can do some unusual things. Some seem to transpose nicely - others do not for example. They can also include control changes.

If you are looking into the Cakewalk Arpeggiator bounce the clip to midi so you can examine the output.

[azslow3]

If for some reason it was not clear from my post, I already have deep understanding what (and how) arps (and auto-accompaniment) engines do.

The question is what (if anything) from that is implemented in Cakewalk.

Discovering that by bouncing clips is possible... but people who edited patterns in Project 5 probably just know.

PS. this thread is about Cakewalk arpeggiator. There are many plug-ins and DAWs which do that better. But all of them are "off topic" here.

[Canopus]

Sorry, I don’t have Project5 and know nothing about it, but if it's of any help there is a 378 page pdf manual for Project5 version 2 online.

Edit: Updated the url slightly.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Canopus

[azslow3]

1 hour ago, Canopus said:

Sorry, I don’t have Project5 and know nothing about it, but if it's of any help there is a 378 page pdf manual for Project5 version 2 online.

Edit: Updated the url slightly.

Thanks!

At least now I have realized that P5 patterns ARE MIDI clips. I mean something Cakewalk can insert into a project as MIDI clip. I somehow had an impression all these PTN files bundles with Cakewalk are for the the arpeggiator only... and was wondering why some of them sound strange when used there... make sense, since in practice the arpeggiator put restrictions on what is played from the clip (no simultaneous notes) and how (the number of octaves). ?

[Canopus]

9 hours ago, azslow3 said:

At least now I have realized that P5 patterns ARE MIDI clips. I mean something Cakewalk can insert into a project as MIDI clip.

Yes, I noticed a couple of days ago that there actually is a P5 Pattern filter available when selecting File > Import > MIDI.

The pattern will be displayed as MIDI in Cakewalk and thus be available for modification, but the problem is of course that there is no way of saving MIDI as a pattern file. I can't really understand why that function was omitted in SONAR as the Bakers at that time definitely had access to the P5 program code. But who knows, maybe they still have it stored in some long-forgotten repository and quite easily can dust it off and integrate it into CbB?

Or, otherwise, that "Magic Fingers" azslow3 might find it an interesting challenge to write an external MID > PTN  converter?

[user 905133]

21 hours ago, azslow3 said:

Do they have some "extra" functionality in comparison to normal MIDI clips?

I mean "real" patterns in other programs have many "extra properties". F.e. some notes don't change position when the pattern is transposed, other stay in tune, etc.
Are some Cakewalk patterns also have similar properties?

Good question.  If there were a file format document that explained the structure (including all the possible features/parameters), I'd be interested. 

5 hours ago, Canopus said:

. . . that "Magic Fingers" azslow3 might find it an interesting challenge to write an external MID > PTN  converter?

As an old man, I no longer have the ability to mine file formats and figure out what's what by trial and error, but if there is no such document and others are interested, I'm willing to help.