Jim Roseberry Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Threadripper is great for heavily multi-threaded applications (video rendering in particular). What's not so great about Threadripper is the lower clock-speed. Not all processes in a DAW application can be multi-threaded, this is why highest clock-speed is still the most critical CPU spec. Right now, the Nvidia RTX video cards (2060, 2070, 2080, 2080ti) are causing high DPC Latency. That's not the case with Vega-64 (no DPC Latency issues). Speed wise, Vega-64 is comparable to a GTX-1080ti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 hours ago, kitekrazy said: Back to topic, what version of W10 is the OP running? The OP is Erik, and I think he's pretty much figured out what the problem was. We are just continuing this conversation as it's developed. Erik still jumps in from time to time! : ) I ran an Athlon DAW for years. In fact I was running that machine as my main DAW and had an Intel q6600 in my home PC. Had Sonar loaded on both and was constantly surprised at how that Athlon did a better job than the Q6600. Granted the Athlon was running XP SP2 and the Intel had Vista!! But when Win 7 came out I put it on the Q6600 and then upgraded my Athlon machine to i7 2600 with WIn7. And that thing is still going strong with Win10. It does get bogged down when I start mixing down, but I just increase the buffers and it just keeps rolling on. It has an older AMD video card in it that was new at the time, but not top of the line at all. When AMD came out with Ryzen I was really hopeful that it would put them back in the game and it did. I know that Intel still has the best single core brute strength, but AMD is, like Jim said, doing better with multicore programs. You can build a great video workstation for less money using AMD. Way off topic now! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steev Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: Threadripper is great for heavily multi-threaded applications (video rendering in particular). What's not so great about Threadripper is the lower clock-speed. Not all processes in a DAW application can be multi-threaded, this is why highest clock-speed is still the most critical CPU spec. Right now, the Nvidia RTX video cards (2060, 2070, 2080, 2080ti) are causing high DPC Latency. That's not the case with Vega-64 (no DPC Latency issues). Speed wise, Vega-64 is comparable to a GTX-1080ti. I agree in this theory. It's still a theory to me because I haven't had the opportunity to actually bench test it with a DAW yet. And as a long time user of AMD all their CPU technologies through the years start out with low wattage/ low clock speeds, and steadily increases by generation, it fact they've already started the process. The Ryzen 7 2700 8-Core (1st gen) only needs 65 Watts which clocks at 3.2 g/Hz with a 4.1 g/Hz turbo boost. Ryzen 7 2700X 8-Core 3.7 GHz (4.3 GHz Max Boost) They raised the Wattage of Ryzen 7 2700X 8-Core (2sd gen) to 105 Watts to raise the clock speed bar to run at 3.7 GHz (4.3 GHz Max Boost) And If my theory is correct, by years end the Ryzen 7 xxxxx 8-Core should be right on schedule to be topping 4 G/Hz with a 4.6 G/Hz Turbo Thrust. That's exactly how they progressed generationally when I started using AMD's with the XP series AMD CPUs , equivalent of Pentium 4, running Windows 2000-32 bit The Athlon was a consumer grade monster and serious contender and threat to Pentium line. It open eyes and introduced me to AMD ? The Phenom "GAMER GRADE" series = early Intel "i" series, 32 bit Win XP, 64 bit Win 7, and 64 bit Mac and the FX series = Intel Xeon "WORKSTATION/SERVER" grade 64 bit Win 7- v10, and Mac Pro HD This is like an Overclocking lesson 101, and being Ryzen 7's are unlocked, users can crank up the juice and get the same results, how ever by doing so, AMD will void warrantee because you overclocked and no longer be responsible for any damage done to your computer, so I highly recommend NOT doing this unless you have mad overclocking skills with a detailed working knowledge of your Computer's BIOS, you have a better chance of a blue screen of death instead of botting Windows, or FRYING your motherboard then you do frying the Ryzen 7. It's much cheaper and less risky to simply upgrade the whole CPU every year or so if you lust for the extra POP under the hood, BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE A HIGH PERFORMANCE, GAMER GRADE MOTHERBOARD WITH SUPPORT FOR OVERCLOCKING! Being all new AMD CPU's and "APU's" used the same standardized AMD Socket 4 slot, you CAN install a Ryzen 7 8-Core into a cheap bargain box AMD that you got on a black Friday blowout sale at Best Buy and it will run by scaling itself back to what your new cheap arse mobo can do, so it's a total waste of time and money, and maybe even perform worse then the much cheaper APU you yank out of it. AMD motherboards come standard with built in Upwards compatibly since I can remember. It's only takes a couple of minutes to swap out a CPU if you know what you are doing, and if you don't, you can just as easily find out exactly how to do it on YouTube. It's so easy, there are NO TOOLS REQUIRED! As of to date, I'm not aware of any Macs running any AMD CPUs, but they do LOVE their AMD FirePros that RULE THE KINGDOM of the high end Apple boxes, er, I mean "trash cans", because that's exactly what a Mac Pro looks like. Mac Pro Intel Xeon E5 3.5 GHz, 16 GB DDR3, 256GB HDD, Dual AMD FirePro D500 3GB Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks I know it looks funny, Apple has always had a great sense of rather campy "design humor" but this puppy will make you feel like "Final Cut Pro" runs like you're playing "Grand Theft Auto". And please take note of the low clock speed of the Xeon running 16 GB of DDR3 memory. And the bad part of the new Mac Pro design is it should never be placed on the floor, because sooner or later somebody is going to accidently for get it a weird looking computer and try and throw an 1/2 empty can of beer at it or spit their "Chew" into it, and or even maybe empty an ashtray into it full of soggy ciggy butts and ganja roaches into it whilst listening and jamming to the the playback of their current DAW project.... And WHO'S FAULT WOULD THAT BE? But the AMD FirePro doesn't care what kind of CPU you have OR what kind of OS you have. It has it's own totally independent Accelerant ENGINE powered by its own highspeed GPU and VERY highspeed DDR5 memory ALL kinds Spec-ed out for "digital content creation".... zoom, zoOM, ZOOMMMMM. And that's even with a high speed Thunderbolt 3 device plugged in one of it's 2 DisplayPorts, hee, hee, oh YES YOU CAN! AMD has excellent and very advanced support for DisplayPort technology. Well that's only natural because they are the original Patent Rights designers.? And for best results with any Intel i7 or AMD systems, "Shut down and disable any and all CPU based video processing controllers in BIOS if possible, and in Windows Services!" so Windows doesn't accidently turn it back on in a future major "Update' " And disable all onboard video chipset drivers in "Device Manager" so Windows doesn't accidently turn it back on in a future major "Update' "Insure your FirePro is the Default Graphics device for the system." so Windows doesn't accidently look past it, because FirePros aren't Windows legacy devices, and so it doesn't "exactly" know what it is and select the 'obvious' run of the mill graphics and default back to onboard graphics in a future major "Update' "And specifically choose the FirePro as the Default Graphics Card to use for "Accelerated Graphics Processing" within the NLE of your choosing. i.e. Vegas Pro, Adobe, Pinnacle Studio, etc." This step is quite similar to forcing a DAW to default to ASIO drivers as opposed to selecting Windows MME drivers as default. It can happen, and always does for no apparent reasons when you least expect it for many various reasons. Why??? BECAUSE IT DOES! That's Whyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Ask Not onto Others no Obviously stupid Questions!" Especially when you already know that BECAUSE IT DOES! is the only obviously simple correct answer! Edited January 24, 2019 by Steev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steev Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Grem said: The OP is Erik, and I think he's pretty much figured out what the problem was. We are just continuing this conversation as it's developed. Erik still jumps in from time to time! : ) I ran an Athlon DAW for years. In fact I was running that machine as my main DAW and had an Intel q6600 in my home PC. Had Sonar loaded on both and was constantly surprised at how that Athlon did a better job than the Q6600. Granted the Athlon was running XP SP2 and the Intel had Vista!! But when Win 7 came out I put it on the Q6600 and then upgraded my Athlon machine to i7 2600 with WIn7. And that thing is still going strong with Win10. It does get bogged down when I start mixing down, but I just increase the buffers and it just keeps rolling on. It has an older AMD video card in it that was new at the time, but not top of the line at all. When AMD came out with Ryzen I was really hopeful that it would put them back in the game and it did. I know that Intel still has the best single core brute strength, but AMD is, like Jim said, doing better with multicore programs. You can build a great video workstation for less money using AMD. Way off topic now! : ) OH HELLS YEAH! LoL.. Any doesn't anybody believe in posting different threads for different topics anymore?? Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure we ever did so... And now going back to something completely different from this thread.... I just updated my crash test dummy Intel i7 machine to Win 10 1809 yesterday to resolve my misunderstanding of Windows 10's new found ability to give the user the ability to "refuse" to accept updates.. And I've seen with my own eyes that it still isn't possible, you can only "Defer" updates, meaning in common layman's terms... PUT OFF UPDATING TO A LATER DATE! Like a week from release notification. That's just too much extra work and fretting for me, since I can choose when to let it update, and considering Windows hasn't installed a poison pill update on my computer since v10's release, by telemetry Windows scans and checks the update results, and if something is wrong and the update FAILS, Window Update will stop and roll back if necessary, and try again next week after fixing the patch, all by itself without any output from me. Any if I don't LOOK into Windows Update History, I would even know there was ever a problem or even know it happened, because the only notifications I have turned on is telling me I have an update waiting to be installed. And that will only happen after a few minutes of idle time, NEVER when I'm working with an open app window running. I always choose to let Windows update when I don't need to use the computer. Why put off until tomorrow what I can do NOW and get it over and done with?? And I also noticed, that even though 1809 does in fact "Break Apple's iCloud" since Microsoft dropped support for Homegroups Networking in 1803, it doesn't matter to my network running on a Netgear Nighthawk router. And so I shall be continuing updating all my Windows computers, via USB flash drive as I write this, so I don't have to DEFER the major update again. By using Windows Media Creation Tool, I not only have a hardcopy of 1809 for emergency purposes, I don't have to download it to every computer for the upgrading ritual. Unlike v10 home, with v10 Pro I can and did choose to DEFER the 1803 to 1809 update for 3 months, and I can do it as many times as I want for as long as I want up to a full year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Steev, Beating a dead horse here, but with the Pro version of Win10, you can shut down (disable) all automatic updates. Once configured, Win10 won't download any updates. If you've got the Home version of Win10, automatic updates can't be fully disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 I'm still here, and my system has settled down and gotten perkier. I'd say, just offhand, that right now it's almost back to where it was under Windows 7. That was a Windows 7 system that had been tuned and tweaked for years to wring every last cycle and millisecond of performance out of it, so the contrast was going to be stark. The draggy system issue was down to a combination of things. It got me to roll up my sleeves and re-familiarize myself with system monitoring tools that allowed me to find out what was going on, such as certain processes that were flogging my hard drive while Cakewalk was trying to stream audio from it, services that were running that I didn't want, the usual cruft. Windows 10 has a whole bunch of stuff to turn off. XBox things, Game Mode, all these things I learned about. It didn't like my graphics card at first so I was relegated to using the onboard HD4000 instead of my Quadro. My wireless Logitech mouse also chose this time to start getting some kind of interference on its frequency, so I thought for a while that I was having other UI responsiveness problems that turned out to be coincidental. I put the nVidia Quadro FX580 back in and it's currently running both my monitors, and I've got my fingers crossed. The video looks so much better with this thing. I even at one point got Windows 10 to permit me to run one monitor from the nVidia and the other monitor from the HD4000, not that I want to keep it that way. I want to have the dedicated graphics card doing its job. The transport lag issue is still a thing with the Cakewalk. I've been working it, analyzing it with Resource Monitor. I've always had issues with the audio engine being sensitive to moving the Loop Markers around. If I move a Loop Marker around a few times, the engine will fall over. It seems to be related to spikes in disk usage, but I can't see anything odd there, my project disk is a SATA 7200 that's separate from the system drive, so there are not data bottlenecks in the setup. And no, it's not because of my Firepods, I have 3 systems and they all do the same thing. One uses an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile and the other its onboard Realtek. Cakewalk seems to stream audio files even when the Clips and Take Lanes that refer to the audio files are muted (as in currently unused takes and clips), and I'm not sure if that's right. Seems like it should leave them alone. I need to bring it to the devs, who have their attention on the NAMM Show right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.r Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said: Cakewalk seems to stream audio files even when the Clips and Take Lanes that refer to the audio files are muted (as in currently unused takes and clips), and I'm not sure if that's right. Seems like it should leave them alone. That's because you can unmute it any time during playback and most probably be wanting to hear the immediate effect. To stop streaming a track you will have to archive it. Edited January 24, 2019 by chris.r 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Grem said: The OP is Erik, and I think he's pretty much figured out what the problem was. We are just continuing this conversation as it's developed. Erik still jumps in from time to time! : ) I ran an Athlon DAW for years. In fact I was running that machine as my main DAW and had an Intel q6600 in my home PC. Had Sonar loaded on both and was constantly surprised at how that Athlon did a better job than the Q6600. Granted the Athlon was running XP SP2 and the Intel had Vista!! But when Win 7 came out I put it on the Q6600 and then upgraded my Athlon machine to i7 2600 with WIn7. And that thing is still going strong with Win10. It does get bogged down when I start mixing down, but I just increase the buffers and it just keeps rolling on. It has an older AMD video card in it that was new at the time, but not top of the line at all. When AMD came out with Ryzen I was really hopeful that it would put them back in the game and it did. I know that Intel still has the best single core brute strength, but AMD is, like Jim said, doing better with multicore programs. You can build a great video workstation for less money using AMD. Way off topic now! : ) I still have a Q6000 machine. To bad my board can't overclock it. I liked the AMD FX series. I still use a FX6300. I liked the previous AMD platform since it ran many processors. Intel started platform jumping. Since I don't do any life performance or recording I don't need Intel's latest and greatest. Intel is somewhat pricey again and even Apple may be looking into making their own processor. For those on a budget there are still some great Intels. I think last week Frys had a 6 core i5 for under $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: Steev, Beating a dead horse here, but with the Pro version of Win10, you can shut down (disable) all automatic updates. Once configured, Win10 won't download any updates. If you've got the Home version of Win10, automatic updates can't be fully disabled. Which is totally stupid unless the aim is to get people to buy Pro. Since W10 was a free upgrade I have to wonder if MS put their best people on it since ever update s continue to cause issues with the average user. I had to revert a couple of times because it broke the home network and shared drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: Steev, Beating a dead horse here, but with the Pro version of Win10, you can shut down (disable) all automatic updates. Once configured, Win10 won't download any updates. If you've got the Home version of Win10, automatic updates can't be fully disabled. Jim is absolutely correct here. The confusion maybe lies in the fact that there are multiple options and you have to dig into Group Policy Editor and configure specific policies to shut down the updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grem Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: I liked the AMD FX series. I still use a FX6300. That's what I have in my Home PC now. That replaced the Intel Q6600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I guess I will get Win10pro on my next computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: Which is totally stupid unless the aim is to get people to buy Pro. Not exactly stupid, because that is exactly the plan. Withe the "Semi-Annual Channel", MS gives away an OS version upgrade to a multitude of free beta testers (mostly unsuspecting Home users), then they log any errors with the new versions via telemetry and fix most of them before the corporate (Enterprise) customers upgrade. The main idea behind using Pro is to be able defer the upgrades long enough to get in sync with the bug-fixed re-releases intended for the corporate crowd. Although you have the capability to permanently disable all updates, it would still be recommended to update eventually, because if you wait too long your version will become unsupported and you will no longer receive any patches. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-overview#semi-annual-channel When Microsoft officially releases a feature update for Windows 10, it is made available to any PC not configured to defer feature updates so that those devices can immediately install it. Organizations that use Windows Server Update Services (WSUS), Microsoft System Center Configuration Manager, or Windows Update for Business, however, can defer feature updates to selective devices by withholding their approval and deployment. In this scenario, the content available for the Semi-Annual Channel will be available but not necessarily immediately mandatory, depending on the policy of the management system. For more details about Windows 10 servicing tools, see Servicing tools. So it might be worth it for some home and small office folks to pay for the Pro version to avoid the headaches and interruptions that can come with initial new Win10 version releases to Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steev Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jim Roseberry said: Steev, Beating a dead horse here, but with the Pro version of Win10, you can shut down (disable) all automatic updates. Once configured, Win10 won't download any updates. If you've got the Home version of Win10, automatic updates can't be fully disabled. 3 hours ago, abacab said: Jim is absolutely correct here. The confusion maybe lies in the fact that there are multiple options and you have to dig into Group Policy Editor and configure specific policies to shut down the updates. OK then, I didn't update my workstation with 10 Pro yet. I have too many active in the works Cakewalk projects going on to fix something that ain't broken yet and I'm sure Microsoft will bury it deep, and as usual they changed the Windows 10 settings controls panel the "gear" icon opens. I prefer the legacy Windows control panel gotten to by typing it into Cortana. I'm sure it's hidden there in plain site. However, I have absolutely NO intentions of stopping any security and patch updates. I'm a big fan of keeping up to date, even if I need to buy a new printer or MIDI keyboard controller occasionally, my computing for free and hacking days are long over. When I think about I was using my Edirol PCR500 since Windows 2000 to Win 7, it kind of broke my heart, but that was short lived after getting and falling in love the Novation Impulse 61. ? And a bulb went off in my head soon after remembering the PCR's nothing more then a MIDI controller, and I can plug it in via standard 5 pin MIDI ports Duh... And I discovered a real quite shocking WTF epiphany moment when I realized how much my PCR was slowing down SONAR running off the ancient USB drivers, and hacking them to work in Win 10 only made it increasingly worse. And my new HP Envy 7640 prints great at blazing speed super cheap to run, orders it's own ink cartridges over the Internet when it get low with HP's instant ink subscription at $3.24 (us)= 1/2 price off for 50 pages per month color, B&W pictures, it doesn't matter, and with a roll over plan. I've never been printer crazy so got like 200 page built up for a big printing project when and if it arises. And I'll never have to run out to Staples for an emergency ink cart run again and that alone is PRICELESS! Yes I am BIG fan of staying current and on top of technology and never falling too far behind anywhere, and especially staying on top of security updates, especially since I make my living on computers. Well I actually make my living on my Mac which is pestering me up upgrade from High Sierra to Mojave since it came out in December, but screw that, that's a little too soon, that's for Apple Head Test tube babies, and I'm done beta testing both OS's. Don't ever believe the BS that Mac's don't have problems and get viruses like Windows computers. Because they have Mac problems and catch Mac viruses, AND even though they might not be infected by Windows viruses, they're still vulnerable to exploits and can still pass on viruses to Windows computers, and that's nothing short of FAQed UP. And I'm sorry boys and girls, but so is not letting Windows patch security and exploit flaws. There are a LOT of nasty hackers out there they work 24/7 365 days a year with nothing better to do then screw you up for no other reason then "Because they can". And THAT is why Microsoft continuously has to update, and also keep abreast of the constant ever changing newer advancements in both software and hardware technology. I'm keenly aware and know all to well what a screwed up world we're living in, but Microsoft is into Computer Science not Political Science, and Google is still hell bent on their original motto of "Do No Evil" and they don't. In fact I truly believe both Microsoft and Google do everything they can to stop evil people from spreading evil upon us, but all they can really do is slow it down. Blaming Microsoft and or Google for spreading evil is like blaming a gun for shooting you or a knife for stabbing you I've actually come to being more trusting, confident, and happy with Windows 10 performance which I definitely find noticeably BETTER then Win 7 and lack of troublesome issues then any Windows OS upgrade since Win 2000 This is more of a curiosity to me then anything else, and I'm even surprised Microsoft caved into the pressure of allowing anyone to stop security updates. But hey, even responses I get here I completely disagree with are infinitely more interesting and accurate then what our poor dear "Toddler in Chief" has to say on TV with his Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber on and on...……….. as we play with our favorite toys he plays with his favorite toys and sings his songS of Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, as the pretty talking heads delight in him signing praise to him... And always pointing thy fingers at others...…………….. And naming and re-naming the names of the doomed...………………. ALL THE LIVE LONG DAY. GEESE! Oh he's a true ROCK STAR that one, YES indeed! Thank God I can get the local weather on my computer or Android phone, thank God for Netflix or I wouldn't have a TV in the living room at all. There is only so much music I can record and make before burning out.. And, and, and...……………….. Ummm, what was this conversation about?? Oh yeah, there ARE NO SOLUTIONS! WHEN THERE ARE ONLY DEBATES! Edited January 24, 2019 by Steev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 8:50 AM, chris.r said: That's because you can unmute it any time during playback and most probably be wanting to hear the immediate effect. To stop streaming a track you will have to archive it. Thanks. Archiving. Time for me to hit the manual. I've seen archiving referred to. That's the thing I do with takes that I want to keep around in the project for comping, but have no immediate use for....got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Quote I prefer the legacy Windows control panel gotten to by typing it into Cortana. I'm sure it's hidden there in plain site. When you type in the "control panel" it will show in Cortana as a program icon. Drag that to your desktop or pin it to your taskbar and start page. This will give you easy access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) On 1/24/2019 at 2:16 PM, Steev said: ? But hey, even responses I get here I completely disagree with are infinitely more interesting and accurate then what our poor dear "Toddler in Chief" has to say on TV with his Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber on and on...……….. as we play with our favorite toys he plays with his favorite toys and sings his songS of Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, Jibber jibber, jibber jabber, as the pretty talking heads delight in him signing praise to him... And always pointing thy fingers at others...…………….. And naming and re-naming the names of the doomed...………………. ALL THE LIVE LONG DAY. BTW you have violated the rules for this forum. Please delete or modify your post. This stuff does not belong here. There are plenty of other places for this. Post is reported. Hopefully our moderators will not allow this and finally someone had to test the waters. Edited January 26, 2019 by kitekrazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 This thread has suffered the problems of long threads and now violated the forums rules on Political comment consequently it is locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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