Moving projects to external storage

[Gary Shore]

Greetings to everyone over here and as always much thanks to everyone who's taken the time to school me in all the different aspects of things I've asked about from time to time....

Posting this because up till now I've just been using my C-drive folder for my projects but,since I've been fairly active ,I'm starting to see my overall  222GB SSD storage space impacted,given that I've moved into the world of installing plugins and looking into setting up  some different VSTi as well....

Just started investigating what's involved in successfully transferring a given project and,while browsing various related threads using search over here has helped me get an initial sense of things,this has been in the context of having to weed out a lot of other stuff related to my main area of focus,so I figured I'd simplify things by posting this vs.continuing to try to figure out which exact search term would get me to threads/posts which would be what I was looking for...

Having studied the "Audio file management" section of the Reference Guide(pg.1155),I'm now becoming aware of the factors involved re-cwp.,bundle files,audio data,etcetc...been checking this out w/the focus being on making sure that all the needed data to get the project up and running in the DAW is completely transferred from the C-drive locations (and then back? vs. Cakewalk being able to open a project from the external storage??)but TBCH would really appreciate being able to access either online info or threads here that would break everything down understandably so I'll know exactly what I'm doing and all the things I need to be aware of here....

Have been checking out some excellent online resources about the overall process but none are Cakewalk-specific re-questions I have like-

How does having third-party plug-ins/VSTi's involved in a given project along w/default Cakewalk ones affect things here?

How do I make sure Melodyne data used to set up specific tracks is part of the overall seamless transition process so that a project will open again intact in the DAW once it's been moved?

I'd greatly appreciate any info/tips/advice/suggestions/links as,while I'm still only using less than about 30% of my overall storage capacity,I'm anticipating this changing fairly soon,especially given the GB some of the VSTi's I'm planning to start using have,added to the large number of new projects I'm anticipating starting to work on in the DAW itself,so it would be great to  get a handle on all this stuff now...

Update Mon.AM-Since posting this thread on Fri.I've been describing the different subfolders within the Project Folder in some of the posts I've made over the weekend but realized I have a screenshot app installed so here's exactly what I've been referring to-

Edited August 30, 2021 by Gary Shore

[treesha]

I put projects on external drives all the time. I save on computer as .cwp and then copy it as a backup to the usb external drive. I use melodyne very much and 3rd party vst fx and instruments and they open fine from the external drive or by being copied back to computer. Bun files are not recommended from what i read on the forum. Also for a big program like Native instruments you can put the sample data on an external drive and keep free space on your computer. Thats what i do. 

[Gary Shore]

Treesha-

Really appreciate you taking the time to reply in detail to exactly what I'm asking about!!

Couple questions-

What is your exact process for transferring the project files fom your C-drive?

i.e....Of these 5 folders shown below I've copy/pasted from my C-drive Cakewalk Projects folder,are you transferring them individually vs.combining them in a bundle file?

Info I've seen suggests doing both a bundle file transfer as well as the cwp.....

Which are needed,are they all needed;will transferring just the white folder include the data in the orange ones,will the Audio/Melodyne data be in this or is a bundle file needed to get all these transferred(which,once unpacked in the external drive,will show these as represented below?)

Still getting a sense of what's involved here and so again I really thank you for the reply....

Also please describe your process for getting the project up and running from the external drive itself vs.copying things back from it to the C-drive folder where it's currently located/where Cakewalk "knows where it is" and can instantly open it from... does this involve "scan paths"??

Also very interested in the info about storing VSTi's like the NI you mention externally as well....

Again want to make it clear I'm just beginning to develop an understanding of everything relating to this so as clearly and simply you can break things down,using a kind of "A to B to C methodology "description/steps you take"approach would be great....

-Audio(yellow folder)

4 kb

-Melodyne(yellow folder)

N/A

-4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.5 mb

-4-5-1.cwp.~2021-06-07-17-05-24-830(white folder)

13.4 mb

-Auto-save Copy of 4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.4 mb

[John Vere]

Same here.  I often record remote sessions on my laptop and transfer to a external drive then to my main computer. I actually have 3 computers I might use The laptop and 2 desktops. 
This also serves as a backup system.  
 

All I do is make a container folder for the “album “ of songs. Each song “project “ is in its own folder inside the container folder. Drag and drop the album folder to wherever 

At any given time I will have at least 4 copies of this folder which I always date. 

Ive never in the ?16 years I’ve worked this way lost a project or had any issues opening them on any other machine. Of course there might be a missing weird plug in but that’s rare for me.
I’ve only ever used CWP files. 

In the old days we called it per project folders. 
What find now is it is critical to check the copy all audio with project box when using Save as 

[John Vere]

You posted while I was replying so did not see that. 
Your overthinking this. 
Everything to do with each project should be in a folder as I said above. 
If you have data spread all around your C drive then best way is to open each project and use “Save as “ and point that at the new drive. Make sure to check the copy audio box. This will creat a folder on the new drive with everything for that project in it. 
 

Before you delete the original files open the save as version on a different computer to test. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by John Vere

[Gary Shore]

Hey John!!

Glad to see you replied here man,as you might remember from a year or so back,I was in touch w/you letting you know how much I appreciated your Cactus Music tutorials which really got me up to speed on using the DAW....

Coincidentally your posts on a bunch of the threads I'd mentioned studying above were among the ones I was learning a lot about things from so couldn't be happier to see you get involved in the discussion here....

A little later on will be reviewing the info in your replies and post here again,looking forward to keeping this line of communication open as I'm sure w/the help of people like Treesha and yourself I'll soon be in a much more empowered place in terms of my overall understanding of things and the exact approach to use so what's currently being examined will become part of my overall skill set and I can keep on focusing on the project itself vs.the technical stuff involved in laptop/external storage....

[treesha]

Hi Gary, I don't like saving projects into the Cakewalk Projects location. Here is how I do it. 1. create a new folder with the name of the song and the date on my desktop. 2. when ready, save the cakewalk file by using save as, the location will be the folder I made on the desktop, fill in file name, file type -  normal, make sure to check the copy all audio with project as John said. That's it for creating a song file project folder with all the elements in that one folder (audio, melodyne, .cwp, etc.) 

3. Once it is created, then I just right click - copy that folder (actually I have 2 I will put it on having lost an important song once), and paste it on the 2 drives. As John said you can also point the save as to the location of the drive and skip my copy-paste step. 

I normally also save a song many times as I work on it, and with each revision make a new folder with the same name and new date on the desktop, and then copy that file again to the external drives, Just my work habits.  

I can easily open a song folder from the external drive by clicking on the .cwp in the song folder. From there it opens cakewalk and loads the file and for me everything has always been present except if it is an ancient song and those fx no longer exist in cakewalk. 

Hope that helps

[scook]

9 minutes ago, treesha said:

Hi Gary, I don't like saving projects into the Cakewalk Projects location. Here is how I do it. 1. create a new folder with the name of the song and the date on my desktop. 2. when ready, save the cakewalk file by using save as, the location will be the folder I made on the desktop, fill in file name, file type -  normal, make sure to check the copy all audio with project as John said. That's it for creating a song file project folder with all the elements in that one folder (audio, melodyne, .cwp, etc.) 

If you prefer to use the Desktop for Cakewalk Projects why not change the default project folder to the desktop?

Any folder accessible to the PC may be used to host project folders.

I do not change the default location in preferences though. I prefer to replace the default folder with a directory junction to the physical location of my top level project folder. In my case, "D:\Cakewalk Project"

 

Each project goes in it's own folder and as long as the Per-Project Audio folder is in the default location, the projects are portable.  By default the project audio folder is at the same level as the project file. Except for video files, the default project layout uses relative file references to locate project data. This is why project folders may be moved anywhere the DAW has access.

Projects that reference the Global Audio folder use the setting in preferences to locate this folder.

All video files and per-project audio folders not in their default location use absolute paths.

 

[John Vere]

Agreed with what Steve just said. I always change the pathway for Cakewalk projects to the root of my data drive. Because I have a few different "album" folder there I prefer to then just navigate to the next level manually. If I'm working on a certain album i will take the time to then change the pathway to that folder to save time. Real easy to do. 

The desktop is a messy way to store things. It's just like never putting stuff in the filing cabinets. Windows purposefully used office work environment terminology for a reason. 

[Gary Shore]

Scook/Treesha/John(and anyone else who sees this thread and wants to add to the discussion)-

Thank you guys so much for posting over here!!

John/Treesha-really appreciate you following up on things....

Scook-Hey man!!Great to see you replying to another one of my threads...hoped I'd be getting the benefit of your wisdom again as you already know from past threads how much I've learned from you....

TBCH am actually focusing on this stuff in the context of an overall return to all the technical aspects of things after a period spent away from the DAW just focusing on organizing/completing a bunch of tracks to start working on in it;having gotten my DAW skill set where I wanted and starting streamlining my overall DAW approach,wanted to get some new tracks started vs.continuing to focus in on all the details of existing ones...so while I'm now back over at the laptop 24-7 vs.at my keyboard dealing w/some of the tracks I have ready to go;actually been checking out/reviewing a bunch of tutorials today on setting up Softsynths/MIDI 360 as I've just installed some new VSTi's and want to make sure I know what I'm doing w/this as well as the subject matter under discussion here....

A litte later on I'll spend some time reviewing what everyone's posted and,as I mentioned in my reply to John earlier,post a new reply which I'm hoping everyone here who's already gotten involved will check out....

Again much thanks to everyone...great to know this forum is alive and kicking!!

[Gary Shore]

Just spent some time reviewing all the replies/info and,while there's a bunch of stuff referenced that I only vaguely understand,esp.in Scook's post(I'll do some 'quote selection"copy-pasting in a minute)..I'm focusing on the common theme of not using the default Cakewalk Project folders as a location to save things in,something that in itself is completely new to me as a concept...

Being fairly new to using a laptop/DAW,my general approach has been to "leave things as they are/understand how they work as is and learn the best method for doing things within this framework"vs.the types of alternate options everyone's posted about....

If I'm understanding things correctly,setting up a  folder independent of Cakewalk's default Project Files system works because -

5 hours ago, treesha said:

I can easily open a song folder from the external drive by clicking on the .cwp in the song folder. From there it opens cakewalk and loads the file

-as long as the cwp.is there Cakewalk will automatically recognize/open it's own proprietary file regardless of where it's stored....

Next focus aspect is-

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

it is critical to check the copy all audio with project box when using Save as 

and since this is something I'm unfamiliar with,further explanation here would be great....

I'm assuming doing this parallels creating what the Reference Guide describes goes on when you create a bundle file,i.e.the 5 folders I copy-pasted the names of/info about in my reply earlier today to Treesha's first reply from one of my current projects will all be inside the created end result file.....

Wanted to clarify,as per John's posts,that I'm only planning doing a simple storage system-oriented process w/the goal being to free up space on my hard drive(although having read Treesha's posts I'm now thinking in terms of adding to my back-up approach as well along w/the Auto-Save copy I have set up to take place automatically periodically)...

(IOW just transferring things from their current location to external storage,not any more advanced stuff like using different computers etcetc....)

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

Everything to do with each project should be in a folder as I said above. 
If you have data spread all around your C drive then best way is to open each project and use “Save as “ and point that at the new drive.

As I currently am doing things each project is in it's own folder within the Cakewalk Projects folder in my C-drive...I'm thinking this will simplify things vs.what's mentioned above...

Finally want to do some copy-pasting (as I mentioned at the beginning of this current reply) of some of the stuff mentioned that I'm unfamiliar with....along w/my doing some online research,clarification by you guys of exactly what you're referring to would be a big help here...

Beforehand though just wanted to take a sec to thank you again Treesha for doing exactly what I asked for in terms of posting an easily understandable,easy-to-follow breakdown of your step-by-step approach to things.....

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

All I do is make a container folder for the “album “ of songs. Each song “project “ is in its own folder inside the container folder. Drag and drop the album folder to wherever 

 

 

5 hours ago, treesha said:

I don't like saving projects into the Cakewalk Projects location. Here is how I do it. 1. create a new folder with the name of the song and the date on my desktop. 2. when ready, save the cakewalk file by using save as, the location will be the folder I made on the desktop, fill in file name, file type -  normal, make sure to check the copy all audio with project as John said. That's it for creating a song file project folder with all the elements in that one folder (audio, melodyne, .cwp, etc.) 

Both of you guys are talking about a folder made using the computer operating system itself NOT a Cakewalk folder if I'm correct???

Lastly,as much of this you can get into and further clarify (based on my above description of the terms used as being new to me/unfamiliar/requiring some online research) would be great Scook.....

4 hours ago, scook said:

replace the default folder with a directory junction to the physical location of my top level project folder. In my case, "D:\Cakewalk Project"

 

4 hours ago, scook said:

Each project goes in it's own folder and as long as the Per-Project Audio folder is in the default location, the projects are portable.  By default the project audio folder is at the same level as the project file. Except for video files, the default project layout uses relative file references to locate project data. This is why project folders may be moved anywhere the DAW has access.

Projects that reference the Global Audio folder use the setting in preferences to locate this folder.

All video files and per-project audio folders not in their default location use absolute paths.

Again much thanks everyone..looking forward to the continued discussion over here....

Edited August 29, 2021 by Gary Shore

[scook]

36 minutes ago, Gary Shore said:

Lastly,as much of this you can get into and further clarify (based on my above description of the terms used as being new to me/unfamiliar/requiring some online research) would be great Scook.....

5 hours ago, scook said:

replace the default folder with a directory junction to the physical location of my top level project folder. In my case, "D:\Cakewalk Project"

 

To create the directory junction to replace "C:\Cakewalk Projects" with "D:\Cakewalk Projects"

1. Move "C:\Cakewalk Projects" to "D:\"
2. Open a command shell as administrator and type :

mklink /j "C:\Cakewalk Projects" "D:\Cakewalk Projects"

The physical folder may be anywhere and have any name. For example, to relocation "C:\Cakewalk Projects" to "E:\Anything\Anywhere\Any name" steps would be

1. Move "C:\Cakewalk Projects" to "E:\Anything\Anywhere\Any name"
2. Open a command shell as administrator and type :

mklink /j "C:\Cakewalk Projects" "E:\Anything\Anywhere\Any name"

As far as the application is concerned the files and folders are still in "C:\Cakewalk Projects".

 

Practically any folder may be relocated this way. 

 

There are quite a few discussions and worked examples on the old forum. To see the threads search Google for

site:forum.cakewalk.com mklink

[Gary Shore]

Scook-

Appreciate the clarification,took a quick look at the link...am I understanding you correctly here that you're talking about a way of transferring the entire Cakewalk folder w/all projects in it to external storage;i.e.once I connect the external storage to USB and see it as my F drive,this process could be used to transfer the entire folder/contents intact vs.what I'd been thinking in terms of,moving projects individually from the C drive Cakewalk Project Folder?If so,would there be an advantage to doing this in terms of what you mention above?

10 hours ago, scook said:

As far as the application is concerned the files and folders are still in "C:\Cakewalk Projects".

 

[Gary Shore]

I was just reviewing the Reference Guide section I mentioned(pg.1155>Audio file management)and found info about what I posted above yesterday re-John's focus on this-(#5 below w/****)

To save an existing project using per-project audio
You may have older files that are not using per-project audio folders. If you want to save these files using a per-project audio folder,use the following procedure:
1. Open the project whose audio you want to store using per-project audio.
2. Select File > Save As. The Save As dialog box appears.
3. If you want, change the name of your project.
4. In the Project Path field, enter the new directory where you want to save the project, or use the Browse button to the right of the field to navigate to an existing directory.
****5. Select the Copy all audio with project check box.

What I'm wondering is,since I'm using the default Preferences settings that insure the Audio data is saved along w/the given project each time,along w/the one aspect of these Preferences dialog processes I have gotten into-setting up the Auto-Save Copy,how much will I need to get into this kind of thing i.e.checking the Project Files dialog as described on pg.1156?

Also,as regards the Global Audio Folder,is this only involved when a project is started before it's been saved,as a storage location for temporary files that are then saved in the Audio Data folder once the project is saved?

Finally,wondering about the dupicate MB given in the Project folder for a given project,i.e.again using the example I copy/pasted yesterday-

21 hours ago, Gary Shore said:

-4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.5 mb

-4-5-1.cwp.~2021-06-07-17-05-24-830(white folder)

13.4 mb

-Auto-save Copy of 4-5-1.cwp(orange Cakewalk logo folder)

13.4 mb

Would the 1st 2 be the same in terms of MB and the third be added,i.e.would the total size be 26.8 MB or 49.3?Trying to get a sense of what's involved re-the orange Cakewalk logo folder along w/the white folder...up till now,just been focusing on making sure when deleting duplicate saved versions of a project to make sure I'm saving the most recent versions of these three without a real understanding of what each represents....in the context of focusing in on various aspects of individual tracks/overall mix,haven't gotten into these technical "data itself" aspects of using the DAW yet so any explanation/clarification here is greatly appreciated....

[scook]

1 hour ago, Gary Shore said:

Scook-

Appreciate the clarification,took a quick look at the link...am I understanding you correctly here that you're talking about a way of transferring the entire Cakewalk folder w/all projects in it to external storage;i.e.once I connect the external storage to USB and see it as my F drive,this process could be used to transfer the entire folder/contents intact vs.what I'd been thinking in terms of,moving projects individually from the C drive Cakewalk Project Folder?If so,would there be an advantage to doing this in terms of what you mention above?

 

You could point to an external drive but I would not recommend it.

Generally external drives are reserved for backup.

[Gary Shore]

So the approach you're describing is more about having a separate folder within the hard drive set up specifically for Cakewalk projects instead of using the C-drive,i.e creating a D-drive folder within it and then moving all the project files over there?

Again,my focus is on freeing up overall storage space on my hard-drive by using external storage;i.e.while you're thinking of this in terms of a back-up system,I'm planning on using it as my main storage area vs.the current Cakewalk Projects folder in my C-drive...existing projects stored externally(along w/of course the option to set up back-ups here as well)and new projects along w/downloads/installations(plugins/VSTi's etc) in the laptop storage making use of newly freed-up storage space....

Edited August 29, 2021 by Gary Shore

[treesha]

I store all my completed projects on the 2 external drives i use and keep only the current version of the project on my desktop. When i revise the current project i give it the new name/ date and move the previous version into storage and again only the current version will be in my desktop. Its my hobby so i normally only work on one song at a time so this is simple and easy for my needs. When i am done with the song i keep that one named Final and delete all the saved intermediate versions off the drives. 

[Gary Shore]

Hey Treesha!!

Appreciate you continuing to post over here and for getting into the details of your approach to locations/storage for back-ups/versions....wanted to get a better sense of what you and John were talking about yesterday re-my last reply yesterday PM...

(see 6 posts back above starting w/-)

16 hours ago, Gary Shore said:

Just spent some time reviewing all the replies/info

Wonder if you might get a chance to take another look at it as I'm still interested in knowing more about this in the context of what we're focusing on and would like to get a better sense of the exact process you're using to move stuff around re-

16 hours ago, Gary Shore said:

talking about a folder made using the computer operating system itself NOT a Cakewalk folder if I'm correct???

Edited August 29, 2021 by Gary Shore

[John Vere]

Mabey what would be faster would be if I make a short video when I get a chance. Then you can SEE what we are talking about. I'll try to do this tonight. 

Everybody does it a little differently but for the most part most long time users have always stored projects on a second drive. We are talking about a proper desktop system which will hopefully have the recommended 3 drives.

Laptops rarely have 2 drives so you either have a large internal drive or use external. Not a system I would want to be stuck with.  My Laptop has 2 drives because  to me this is critical if I'm using it for recording. 

So a question for you Gary..  Is this a desktop with 2 drives or a Laptop with one? 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by John Vere

[Will.]

You can also move all your samples and libraries to your C drive and keep your C drive clean for all your installations? 

This way when you decide to redo your windows drive over in the future you'll keep all you personal documents - instead of programs installed on both drives? Easier to be organized that way. 

So whatever you have on the Cdrive such as: songs, videos, photos, samples,projects, presets or libraries - move everything to your D drive and keep all your installations on your windows drive. 

[treesha]

Ok on the folder, Yes i right click on the desktop and make a new windows folder then change the folder name to the song name and date. Then asap in my cakewalk song file i save as, put in the location as the folder on my desktop, put song name and date, check the save audio box. From the desktop I copy that folder twice, each to 1 external drive. Then maybe end of night i will save in a new folder again with maybe EVE along with the name and date, then copy to the drives. Then keep only the most current on the desktop. So i have one as my currently working on file and many older ones if needed. I am using a laptop and do aim to conserve space. I am not a pro at all so for me simple works, but everyone is in different situations. My big samples like native instruments and all my non-kontakt extra instruments are on external drives too. You are working hard to understand things and i hope you are!