Last Night's Gig

[57Gregy]

I can't comment on all the technical aspects of it, but my Mustang 1 makes lots of cool sounds and is still too young to smoke.

[craigb]

6 hours ago, bitflipper said:

Only problem is he seems committed to tubes.

It can be almost religious to some... ?

[Shane_B.]

2 hours ago, craigb said:

It can be almost religious to some... ?

 

 

[bitflipper]

Damn, if all tube amps had multicolored light shows inside, I might go back to valves myself!

I did in fact have a look at the Hughes & Kettner amps during my research. I've always thought they looked awesome. But at $2500 I'll just buy some LED strip lights instead.

Greg, is this your amp? It's considerably less-expensive than the Marshall, too.

[CoveCamper]

If he goes down the modeling amp route i would not count out looking at the Boss Katana's. I picked up a Katana 50 ($250 )and love it. They have 50 and 100  watt combo's and heads.The 100's even have a connection to go straight to the power amp  for people that play keyboards,etc. (See I was thinking about you too Bit).  I'm an old geezer that likes classic tones too.

https://www.boss.info/us/categories/amplifiers/katana/

 

Hopefully he has a place to go and check all these amps out?

 

[bitflipper]

Thanks, CC. I wouldn't have even thought of Boss for amplifiers. Every Boss product I've ever owned ran on 9V batteries.

[Bajan Blue]

I have the usual stable of valve amps - Marshall, Fender, Burns, Laney etc. But I also have a couple of Transistor / Modelling Amps - Blackstar and Orange Crush for instance.

Whilst I am sure most / all of us could tell the difference between  what was valve and what was not, I honestly don't think that a lot of people at a gig could!!

What's everyone's opinion on that?

I know I MUCH prefer lifting my Blackstar which weighs next to nothing as opposed to my Laney which weighs about the same as my car?

Nigel

 

[craigb]

Studio had:

[craigb]

But, if I were to play live, only the bottom case in this pic was really needed:

[bitflipper]

Quote

Whilst I am sure most / all of us could tell the difference between  what was valve and what was not, I honestly don't think that a lot of people at a gig could!!

I agree. When you're seriously into recording, you naturally become very nit-picky about even the most trivial of factors ("should I choose the linear-phase option on this tambourine EQ?"). Some of that attention to detail is bound to leak into other activities ("what, your bedsheets are only 400 thread count? Amateur!").

Truth is, in a live performance all you gotta do is make sure your beer doesn't rattle off the bass cab.

(True story: a bartender once thought it was a good idea to put a Jack 'o Lantern atop my Leslie. I was too stupid to object, and midway through the second set the bottom rotor and amplifier were splattered with pumpkin guts, resulting in a repair bill that cost more than the gig paid.)

[Shane_B.]

4 hours ago, Bajan Blue said:

Whilst I am sure most / all of us could tell the difference between  what was valve and what was not, I honestly don't think that a lot of people at a gig could!!

What's everyone's opinion on that?

With modelling now and my aging ears it's impossible for me to tell. And it probably was when my ears were good but that whole 'yeah tubes man' thing kicks in.

The best sounding amp I've ever heard was a Kustom 150 with a 4 x 12 cabinet. Metallic blue tuck and roll. Kustom's were all CCR used back in the day. I couldn't tell the difference between it and a vintage Fender tube sitting next to it. But the Kustom had 0 work done to it in 50 years. I 99% guarantee you won't get that long of a run with any tube amp.

[bitflipper]

My first amp was a Kustom in "Cascade", a sort of metallic turquoise pleated naugahyde. 100W head and 3 (!) 15" Jensens. No horn. Not a great amp for a Vox Continental, but everyone in the band had matching amps, including the PA, so at least it looked cool.

[57Gregy]

17 hours ago, bitflipper said:

Damn, if all tube amps had multicolored light shows inside, I might go back to valves myself!

I did in fact have a look at the Hughes & Kettner amps during my research. I've always thought they looked awesome. But at $2500 I'll just buy some LED strip lights instead.

Greg, is this your amp? It's considerably less-expensive than the Marshall, too.

That looks different than mine, but mine is several years old; perhaps they updated it a little.
The Mustang 1 is/was their cheapest modeling amp. Mine doesn't have a line out, just a headphone out but I imagine the bigger models have more options.
And if a solid state modeling amp models the sound of a tubed amp, who needs tubes?

[Shane_B.]

1 hour ago, bitflipper said:

My first amp was a Kustom in "Cascade", a sort of metallic turquoise pleated naugahyde. 100W head and 3 (!) 15" Jensens. No horn. Not a great amp for a Vox Continental, but everyone in the band had matching amps, including the PA, so at least it looked cool.

3 15s? Wow! In my last band I had to add a 15 to my Mesa Dual Rectifier. No matter what guitar I used (LP or Strat) it sounded thin. Absolutely no 'chug' to it. Sounded great once I ran the 15 through the external cabinet jack. We broke up before we got a chance to play out. The bass player had to move for work and the singer started his own business. Both quit just as we finished learning 4 full sets. That was the last band I was in 18 years ago up in Iowa.

I passed on a metallic cream colored Kustom that had a single 15. What a warm clean sound. It was in bad shape though so I passed. The local mom and pop trade in place bought a guys entire collection of rare Kustom amps. 20 or so. The only thing he has left is 1 Kustom powered PA speaker. They were made near hear back in the day so the vintage ones are still readily available in this area. 

He became known for his vintage Kustom amps and became a Kustom dealer. He has most of their new line in his showroom. They sound good and are dirt cheap.

[craigb]

7 hours ago, bitflipper said:

Some of that attention to detail is bound to leak into other activities ("what, your bedsheets are only 400 thread count? Amateur!").

 

That made me LOL!  I lived with that girl.  ?

[bitflipper]

2 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

...if a solid state modeling amp models the sound of a tubed amp, who needs tubes?

The price difference is large and the solid-state equivalents are usually far more powerful than their tube equivalents. For example, the Fender Twin Reverb solid state version is 200W and $1000, while the tube version is 85W and $1700.

If I was certain this claim was valid about a modeling amp sufficiently emulating tubes, I'd press for that option. But not being a guitar player, I lack the authority to make such a claim to my friend.

So how say the guitarists here? Do you agree with Greg's assessment?

[craigb]

I can't speak for the newer breeds like the Ax-FX, Helix or profiling amps like the Kemper (Steve?), but the older modellers like the Line 6 stuff could only do so much.  The reason has to do with what real tube amps do in that last 1% (the "magic" if you will - sag, feel, whatever you want to call it).  There simply wasn't enough processing power to waste a ton replicating that last 1%.  That said, I think it can be done now, just not sure if it has!

[bitflipper]

OK, then. That's a definite "maybe" from Craig. Thank you.

 

[Shane_B.]

35 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

OK, then. That's a definite "maybe" from Craig. Thank you.

 

It varies by amp in my opinion.

I've had 2 modelling amps. All the videos on youtube I saw made the Mustang IV sound great but in person it wasn't even close. The youtube vids I saw used the line out. I get the impression it was meant to be played through a PA and the actual amp side of it was designed as a PA. I found that to be the case with several different modeling amps I tried.

The Champion on the other hand sounds and responds like a real/true amp. This guy does a great vid on the Champion 100. It's very true/accurate in response to gain on the amp and guitar volume. He also mentions it's limitations. I have zero regrets buying it. Wish I had more time to use it and wish I was in a band again to give it a real workout.

 

[bitflipper]

Hey, that's the same guy who sold me on the Marshall. I have a feeling he likes every amp. But I'll take the word of an actual owner/user over any paid presenter and if you say it's awesome then it's awesome. I'll have my guitarist watch both the Marshall and the Fender videos when we get together for band rehearsal on Sunday.

At $400 the Champion is half the price of the Marshall. I'll just have to sell him on the idea that not having tubes doesn't make him any less of a man.