RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) I am trying to meter my tracks in Cakewalk with Izotope's Neutron and Insight Pro. When I place an instance of Neutron into the track effects bin then I look at the instance of insight in my master bus bin I select the Neutron tap from the track bin in Insight and it is showing me the content of the track "before" my track envelopes. How do I get Neutron to exist in the track bin after my track envelopes? I know I could create a bus and then send my track to that bus but then I have to create a bus for every track, this becomes messy. I don't know why Neutron is picking up the track before my envelopes... Any thoughts on this dilemma? And how about bus folders to simplify the bus area? Edited June 3, 2021 by RexRed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 It is not clear what the envelopes are automated Here is the signal flow diagram http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Mixing.07.html maybe it can help with where the FX racks exist in the tracks and buses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 When the track envelopes automate the track volume, the volume automation is after the effects bin. This seems like volume envelopes should be before the track effects bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 It seems that Cakewalk is passing pre fader information to izotope meters rather than post fader information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Having the volume fader/automation before FX would play havoc with dynamics plug-ins and plug-in levels in general. To automate levels before some or all of the effects add a plug-in with an automatable gain/volume control and move the track volume automation to it. Something like the plug-ins mentioned in this post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 minute ago, RexRed said: It seems that Cakewalk is passing pre fader information to izotope meters rather than post fader information. the volume fader comes after the PC and FX rack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 Yes this is what I thought too. But, when I place an instance of Neutron in the effects bin and I put a volume envelope fader on the track and the envelope goes to zero Neutron (through Insight Pro) does not show this. The volume remains constant as if it is seeing the pre fader volume instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 That's right The volume fader and its automation are after the FX rack so Neutron is measuring the signal pre-fader. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 Oh I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 So I would need to add Neutron to a bus to see post fader results. This is where bus folders would help alleviate the clutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) Thanks for you help SCook! Edited June 3, 2021 by RexRed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Any send can be pre or post fader; you could use aux tracks or buses. Aux tracks may be placed in folders. Or as I mentioned above, leave the faders at unity and add a plug-in before Neutron in the track FX rack to handle volume automation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 Ahh ok, and since the volume bin fader would be pre Neutron its envelope would also be pre Neutron. Fantastic! What do you use for a simple bin volume plug-in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) I think the send idea is very nice! I could create and array of tracks with post sends they could be routed to tracks or a bus with an output set to none. This is all quite complex but it is completely workable. Edited June 3, 2021 by RexRed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 WRT gain plug-ins see 6 minutes ago, RexRed said: I think the send idea is very nice! I could create and array of tracks with post sends they could be routed to bus with an output set to none. if you don't want a silent bus warning just turn the volume fader to 0 on the bus. Remember the bus fader does not affect the signal to its FX rack., 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexRed Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) This is all very great info! Awesome awesome awesome! Thanks! The Blue Cat's Gain is a great tip too! Edited June 3, 2021 by RexRed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Phillips Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 9:41 PM, RexRed said: When I place an instance of Neutron into the track effects bin then I look at the instance of insight in my master bus bin I select the Neutron tap from the track bin in Insight and it is showing me the content of the track "before" my track envelopes. The only signals that a Neutron instance can send to Insight are those where it is. You should be able to place relay instances in signal chain locations without other iZotope plugins that you want to monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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