Acknowledge Cakewalk as a pro DAW

[MisterX]

7 hours ago, Steev said:

(...) And so as the story goes... Windows 7 was freak'in AWESOME for it's decade, but it's decade has PASSED and now it's as silly and dangerous as using kerosene lanterns because both pose extreme security risks.. Windows 7 was never intended to be a life long friend, and now, it not only holds you back from progressing, your standing on shaky, unstable grounds as the world continues to turn and evolve, you are one update away from blowing up and nuking you entire computer and taking Cakewalk by Bandlab with it.. And if that's not DANGEROUS I don't know what is!

 

If Win 10 is more secure than their previous systems (Win7 for that matter), then take a look here:

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=windows+security+update+windows+10

and ask yourself why Microsoft already had to release several hundreds security updates for it, and still releases about two dozens every month.

[Byron Dickens]

Um.... That's why W10 is more secure: they're still issuing security updates.

[MisterX]

6 hours ago, bdickens said:

Um.... That's why W10 is more secure: they're still issuing security updates.

Would you consider a car that requires security related fixes 150 times a year to operate properly SAFE?

I wouldn't.  I'd rather consider it poorly designed (or  made).

[murat k.]

47 minutes ago, MisterX said:

7 hours ago, bdickens said:

Um.... That's why W10 is more secure: they're still issuing security updates.

Would you consider a car that requires security related fixes 150 times a year to operate properly SAFE?

I wouldn't.  I'd rather consider it poorly designed (or  made).

Windows is like living organism. Just like your body needs antibodies, it needs security updates. Because there are too many attacks outside, that's why they call viruses. More care comes more health. Also your car needs some care by time too. But needs are different.

If the company stops updates it means if there are some vulnerabilities, you're taking risk. When company stops updates, that doesn't mean it's perfect, they do it because over time it becomes expensive to continue serving for an old app.

[Lord Tim]

Imagine you and a friend each have to walk home along a very dangerous route in the city. You both think it's a good idea to hire security guards to walk with you, each from a different company.

Your friend has a guard from Company W10. After every journey, he sits down and works out what could have been done to keep your friend safe and gets training every few days to fill in the blanks of his knowledge. It's more work for the guard, but ultimately your friend is much safer and the contract is ongoing too.

Meanwhile, you've hired a guard from Company W7. This guard only gets periodic bits of training, so any savvy criminals were able to steal your wallet every now and then until he learned new techniques on how to stop them. Then, the guard stops his training contract so he doesn't learn anything past what he knew a few years ago when the contract expired, while the criminals have moved on to newer and more sophisticated ways of stealing your stuff.

Which guard would you prefer to have walk with you  through the city?

[MisterX]

1 hour ago, murat k. said:

Windows is like living organism. Just like your body needs antibodies, it needs security updates. Because there are too many attacks outside, that's why they call viruses. More care comes more health. Also your car needs some care by time too. But needs are different.

If the company stops updates it means if there are some vulnerabilities, you're taking risk. When company stops updates, that doesn't mean it's perfect, they do it because over time it becomes expensive to continue serving for an old app.

Sure, our cars need some care & maintenance from time to time, but certainly not every other day for 10  years or so! Unless they're seriously broken by design, that is. 

[Steev]

3 hours ago, MisterX said:

Would you consider a car that requires security related fixes 150 times a year to operate properly SAFE?

I wouldn't.  I'd rather consider it poorly designed (or  made).

YES! It's preventive maintenance. There's no such thing as perfection, but it keeps your system as safe as possible. I'm pleased that they are making such an effort to try to keep ahead of the real problems that Hackers never stop trying to cause. And that's never ending story. Just like a 10 year car that wasn't properly maintained, it becomes more problematic and expensive to keep on the road the a new car.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Steev

[MisterX]

46 minutes ago, Steev said:

YES! It's preventive maintenance. There's no such thing as perfection, but it keeps your system as safe as possible. I'm pleased that they are making such an effort to try to keep ahead of the real problems that Hackers never stop trying to cause. And that's never ending story. Just like a 10 year car that wasn't properly maintained, it becomes more problematic and expensive to keep on the road the a new car.

if an operating system requires 150 security fixes yearly (let alone hundreds of other ones) it's quite far from perfection. At least to me. As for system updates - it's an arms race, indeed, and that's a good reason to stay offline with a music production machine, regardless of system used.

[oneofmany]

PC shop owner for 25 years. Used to do at least two virus/malware removals a day up to and including Win 7, regardless of the 3rd party anti-virus being used. With Win 10, using built-in along with Malware bytes, the only ones we see are customers responding to stupid emails that didn't get blocked. Bad for us, good for us lol. 

[Terry Kelley]

Metaphor Wars have come to CbB. It's like ... <>

Edited May 17, 2021 by Terry Kelley

[paulo]

3 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Imagine you and a friend each have to walk home along a very dangerous route in the city......

 

Which guard would you prefer to have walk with you  through the city?

If the city was that dangerous I wouldn't walk through it.

 

[chris.r]

23 minutes ago, MisterX said:

if an operating system requires 150 security fixes yearly (let alone hundreds of other ones) it's quite far from perfection. At least to me. As for system updates - it's an arms race, indeed, and that's a good reason to stay offline with a music production machine, regardless of system used.

I'd like to stay offline with my music production machine all the time but now, with the new Windows 10 system it's not an option anymore. With their feature updates every 6 months they may eventually break old ways of working for some programs and then the developers have to adjust with their software updates to make things rolling again. So, you either stay offline on an older Windows version and won't be able to update other programs or you risk breaking compatibility - like Cakewalk is constantly being updated and maintained but officially requires the most recent Windows 10 version - or you're spending way too much time updating all your software every week and sometimes fighting issues from it instead of just doing music. Bad choice.

[Byron Dickens]

5 hours ago, MisterX said:

Would you consider a car that requires security related fixes 150 times a year to operate properly SAFE?

I wouldn't.  I'd rather consider it poorly designed (or  made).

 

1 hour ago, MisterX said:

Sure, our cars need some care & maintenance from time to time, but certainly not every other day for 10  years or so! Unless they're seriously broken by design, that is. 

An OS is not a car.

[MisterX]

13 minutes ago, chris.r said:

I'd like to stay offline with my music production machine all the time but now, with the new Windows 10 system it's not an option anymore. With their feature updates every 6 months they may eventually break old ways of working for some programs and then the developers have to adjust with their software updates to make things rolling again. So, you either stay offline on an older Windows version and won't be able to update other programs or you risk breaking compatibility - like Cakewalk is constantly being updated and maintained but officially requires the most recent Windows 10 version - or you're spending way too much time updating all your software every week and sometimes fighting issues from it instead of just doing music. Bad choice.

Didn't have a single software compatibility issue on my Win7 audio system so far. I'm OK to stay on Win7 "forever",  'cause what I have is more than I need, anyway. My only concern ATM is that it may be hard to find a decent Win7-compatible mainboard once mine is dead. but I'm already working on it.

[Lord Tim]

The reality is this: Win7 is EOL now. There's no support for it from Microsoft and CbB isn't actively being tested on it anymore. That's not to say it won't work on Win7 but the Bakers aren't 100% ensuring it works since the OS is basically a dead end. Going forward, you'll find more and more software and hardware that won't work with Win7, so your options are basically this:

Use your current Win7 compatible software and hardware and wait for it to all eventually die out. Then you have to choose where to go from there.

You can hunt around for old parts and keep trying to piece together old hardware and outdated software to stay in that old ecosystem, and miss out on the performance gains and enhancement the current gen of gear has.

Or you can move to Mac, possibly having to re-buy a lot of stuff and learn a new DAW, and then having to choose wisely because Mac is in a transition between Intel and M1 hardware, and a lot of software still has to phone home on a Mac regardless, and they get a fair amount of updates a year like Win10 does.

Or you can move to Linux and have to deal with an extremely limited amount of hardware and software and less than idea troubleshooting if anything goes wrong, since it's not on any of the other two mainstream operating systems.

The computer world is a very different place now than it was 10 years ago, and it's rare to find anyone not embracing a fully connected world, and will be even more so going forward as the old deprecated software and hardware fades away. I know I'd much rather make plans to ensure I have a future with what I did rather than finding one day that the world has moved on without me and I'm stuck making a very hard choice when something I rely on no longer works in the not-to-distant future.

[MisterX]

1 hour ago, bdickens said:

 

An OS is not a car.

Sorry, didn't know that. Next time I'll use a train to draw an analogy.

[mdiemer]

By now, rest assured those of us using Windows 7 have heard all the arguments posted above by various people. We are completely aware that Windows 7 is EOL. I began  preparing for it a few years ago, when it became obvious to me that Microsoft was only interested in monetizing me. I started using Linux for my online "work" (checking the handful of forums I visit each day, and deleting the spam email I get, from people trying to monetize me. There's a reason Microsoft wants you online 100% of the time).

Please, keep the sermons to yourselves. We Luddites may not be as stupid as you think. There's a very good chance I will be able to use at least Sonar for the rest of my life. One, I'm just a hobbyist. No pressure to perform or produce. Two, I'm almost 70, and it's likely my rig will continue to work as long as I'm around, and still wanting to do music. Three, I have all the software I am ever likely to need.

As for security, as I said, when online I'm on Linux. I keep my music machine offline by default. And I run paid AV on it just in case. And I practice safe habits, which is 90% of security.

I don't care what operating system, music software or computer hardware anyone uses. and it continues to baffle me that so many people do seem to care, and rather passionately, that a few people have decided they don't like the direction things are going in. We're not subversives, trying to prevent the relentless march of progress. but we do have the right to voice our opinions, participate in the discussion, etc. Unfortunately,  a few here seem to lose it when we do. Quite innocuous remarks elicit multi-paragraph responses with colorful prose, and even name-calling. Kind of resembles religious fanaticism. As if our souls were in mortal danger.

Again, WHO CARES? Do what you want. I respect your right to make intelligent decisions about how to make your music. please respect mine. Resist that need to warn me that I am about to fall off a cliff. I assure you I am not.

Edited May 17, 2021 by mdiemer

[marcL]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

and miss out on the performance gains and enhancement the current gen of gear has.

This is one of the illusions that many "novelty-fanatics" have! I would say minimum 80-90% of the power of new gear is being eaten by new software (included Windows 10, and CbB). And we are not talking about the time lost to keep the software "new"! Regrettably there are not many software developers like Cockos (Reaper) that cherish the users hardware by producing really efficient software and respecting older systems!

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

The computer world is a very different place now than it was 10 years ago, and it's rare to find anyone not embracing a fully connected world, and will be even more so going forward as the old deprecated software and hardware fades away. I know I'd much rather make plans to ensure I have a future with what I did rather than finding one day that the world has moved on without me and I'm stuck making a very hard choice when something I rely on no longer works in the not-to-distant future.

Yes, it is very different in that a lot of software has become less professional. If I compare contemporary software (plugins, DAWs and operation systems) with the ones of 10 years ago, then I can't see a lot of real improvements, but I see a lot of trouble for its users (bugs, permanent updates, instability, resource eaters, intrusion by online enforcement, authorization issues by system and hardware changes, ...). But you are right, we can't change the world, thus we have to deal with the future (that's often some kind of past!). For this reason I collect a lot of hassle free music software that does not have too many requirements.

The image you paint of the future seems to be very dark! Just look at people using happily 20 year old software today (like old Sonar versions)! Most of this old software is still running perfectly. For emergency I have also 2 old harddisk recorders that are running without doubt and you can still buy similar ones!

[sadicus]

...I know it's not true, but after paying of Cakewalk/SONAR for so many years it doesn't feel Free. just want to say to the free users you're welcome. lol
Also When Gibson made their crap move, I did not panic and jump ship to studio one,  just like toilet paper people were loosing their minds.
For me this is the best and most stable version. The MIDI and Articulation map updates are so cool!
Can someone please explain how a company that makes an app free makes money?
 

 

[marcL]

3 hours ago, chris.r said:

I'd like to stay offline with my music production machine all the time but now, with the new Windows 10 system it's not an option anymore. With their feature updates every 6 months they may eventually break old ways of working for some programs and then the developers have to adjust with their software updates to make things rolling again. So, you either stay offline on an older Windows version and won't be able to update other programs or you risk breaking compatibility - like Cakewalk is constantly being updated and maintained but officially requires the most recent Windows 10 version - or you're spending way too much time updating all your software every week and sometimes fighting issues from it instead of just doing music. Bad choice.

On the other hand there are not so many developers that force you to the newest OS versions, i.e. if you avoid those ones you still have a lot of choice for music software!